View Full Version : Angband Dilemmas

22-08-2003, 14:33:00
Spurred by the renewal of the CG challenge, here I come with some musings and questions I never aired on this game...

Things I hate

For now, I could say Pests.
Some of them you can tackle if you catch them early, maybe sepnding a speed potion. You could just leave and close the doors behind you, but that's not alwys feasible... and what if there's an artifact witing in the infested room?
But others...
Especially those who confuse you, as you don't always have resistance to it, ...or a storage of mushrooms.
Hummerhorns, Blue Icky Things, oh god how I hate them!

Antoher thing I hate, is getting showered with {good} items and having to decide what to leave behind on the level when going back up! I'm rahter a "loot" player, that is I swipe a level until I have my backpack full of worthy items to resell. In such case I won't descend a level, I could not carry more. I go up, the recall back at the same level, and only if when I explored it all I still have room, or have some expendable slot in the backpack, then I move down the dungeon.

Often I collect all the "prospect loot" items and let them down on the floor in a selected room, to go fetch others I had let down while explring/fighting, then I sort them and decide what to bring up.
The thing I hate most is when going to fetch the last item lying far away, I get back in the deposit and find it infested by pests! Despair!

Usually I have no problems to sell even Ego items keeping no backups for the wielded equipment.
Sometimes tho, if not in need of money to purchase something, I keep something I think it might get useful in specific situations, or which I simply can't/won't decide for now which is better.
Thus I end to have in My Home a few weapons, for instance.

This happened in my CG Challenge Nanacy attempt too.
I'm asking here the advice of someone more expert than me.
I am puzzled about how I should rate, or use, compare, prefer them (and also about how the game prices them)

Here's my weaponry (Clevel 27 now, Dlevel 16)

Sell Character per Round
lb Weapon Ego Dice +H +D Price +Sk. %Dedl. Blw Dam

15 MorningStar ExtrAtt.(+1) 2d6 (+9,+8) 11'053 23 217 3 45
15 Flail Melting 2d6 (+3,+2) 5'896 17 202 2 28*
14 Bastard Swd Freezing 3d4 (+1,+6) 2'365 15 212 2 31*
15 Broad Sword Blessed (+1) 2d5 (+5,+3) 4'167 19 204 2 24
28 Zweihander 4d6 (+6,+5) 1'119 20 209 2 58

The different magical levels of the differnt weapons actually influence their value not in a small way, and those could be enhanced reading the appropriate scrolls (which I already did a bit for the first in the list).
If the table didn't get messed, you can see that the price doesn't go along with the Average Damage per Round (last column).

As a brutal hacker, I would go for the Zweihander! 4d6! That's DOUBLE the damage of the others only with the dice roll.
True, it also weighs double. I'm AMAZED that I still have 2 blows per round with it! True, I have 18/70 Str (enhanced by ring and artifact Gauntlets).
The weight will also let me carry less items before being slowed down....

The Blessed Sword costs a bit more coz it gives +1 Wisdom (who cares) and it's blessed (who cares, I'm not a priest). Its plus it's also Regeneration. It has the lowest D/R tho. I think it's a precious item... to sell!

I can't understand if the Ego attack of the two branded weapons (treble damage against the monsters not resistant to Acid or Cold respectively) has got *already* taken into account in their D/R, which I marked with the *.
Comapring them with the blessed, I should say NO. does this mean that I should consider 84 and 93 D/R respectively???? :confused:
And I don't understand why the Freezing, which seems to have dadliers stats, is priced half than the Melting. Maybe because there are less monsters resistant to Acid than to Cold? And there are more who attack you with Acid (which damages all your equipment while cold only shatters the potions in your sack...)?

Finally, the Zweihander and the Extra Attack one have no magical features. After taking into account the 1 extra attack, you should only compare them by their damage stats. Don't you?
Well, calculating the old way:
MorningStar: 2 dice of 6 - from 2 to 12 basic damage, 10-20 with D bonus
Zweihander: 4 dice of 6 - from 4 to 24, 9-29 with bonus

Although the 1st is a "roof" and the 2nd is a very narrow bell distribution shape, both have symmetrical probability and both the peak & the average in the middle, that is 15 for the MS and 19 for the ZH.
Now, 15*3 yields indeed 45 (with a To-Hit + of 9), but 19*2 yields 38 (with a slightly lower to-hit) and not 58 (whic his 19*3 +1 !)
Maybe it's because a (much!) heavier weapon deals more damage, beyond its stats, provided you can wield it without being encumbered?
Or because the stats don't account for the chances to MISS hits, which have obviously a greater weigh with 3 blows?

That's really beyond me. Maybe it should be interesting to have a look at the combat resolution code, as it's open source...

for now I'm wielding the ExtraAttacks one, but I'm in doubt I'd be better off with the Melting one.

I'm eager to read your comments and advices!

22-08-2003, 16:11:52
If the morning star is considered a blunt weapon, it also has a chance to stun. Right?

22-08-2003, 20:18:34
MoSe... you should use the Blessed sword.

As I recall:
It provides +1 light... For archer characters (And all characters in dungeon crawls are archer characters... especially mage characters), that's one more block out that non-light monsters can be seen.
It fights with holy fury against evil/demons/devils/that sort of thing. (x3 damage to all evil in some version, x5 damage to all evil in some versions)
It provides some basic immunities (IIRC)
It provides +1 to your own saves
It is immune to acid
It is immune to fire
it is immune to cold
It is immune to something else.
(Do an *Identify* on it, if you don't believe me.)

The plus to wisdom could be important.
IF: Raising your wisdom raises some of your saving throws (some do seem related, but I haven't looked in the source to find out if I'm just way off base)

Charisma and Intelligence seem to be the primary affectors of your bargaining ability, which surprised me. I'd have thought it was charisma, Int, Wis and level. But again, I haven't checked the source.

I play pretty much like you do... which is why I've started compiling a list of what beats what to bring back. Pluses make a BIG difference for weapons, so it's always worth it to enchant an item up to that +9 range if you see an enchantment scroll for sale cheap enough...

As far as selling goes... whichever costs more to by (no enchantments) will be the base weapon to pick bringing back, unless there is a serious difference in pluses. That's the base that gets multiplied against for the pluses, and the ego bonus.

Well, I'm sure SP and Qaj will be along shortly to tell you where I'm wrong. They know the game much better then I do...

However, if it's a choice between 2 attacks a round, and 3 attacks a round... are you taking that into account for your min/max/average figures? With ego weapons doing x3 damage for cold/acid/fire damage, the difference between 2 hits versus 3 hits tends to be trivial. However, for things immune to your ego, the difference can be significant. And the harder an enemy is to hit, the better choice it is to simply to swing more often.

Now, you are really better off just using a Long Bow or Crossbow of Extra shots... it's like speed with any arrow/bolt. ;)

As for pests... yep, I find most to be an irritant. That's why you pack wands or spells of stinking cloud, and light. If the pests confuse... recall and port away. Best to live to sell today, then try to worry about never having a clear head to get away.

Too bad helms/rings/amulets of confusion resistance are so damned rare. Actually, I've only seen helms grant immunity/resistance to confusion, but I've seen rings of blindness immunity, so I'm guessing there should be rings that do the same for confusion.

Sir Penguin
23-08-2003, 01:19:48
You'll like the next challenge character, MoSe. :)

After not too long, my choice of which high-ego/artifact weapons and armour to use depends on how its resists compliment my other equipment and if it has plusses to my main attributes. I wouldn't use the Blessed sword as a ranger, unless it had nifty resists. A +1 to WIS for a ranger isn't significant. I think the ranger's favourite attributes are DEX, CON, and INT. I'd sell it and buy useful stuff. I'd keep the extra attacks weapon. But that's just me.

The Melting weapon's more expensive because Melting weapons are just more expensive. It's the way it's set up. They're the most expensive of the elemental brands, followed by Shocking, then Burning, then Freezing. The most expensive type of weapon is Pattern, then Westernesse and Holy Avenger, then Defender.


25-08-2003, 08:30:51
Thx for the replies!

DS, I did *Identify* the Blessed Sword, and most the things you say are undocumented! Are those things you learn by playing the deeper levels, which I never got to?

*Identify* Item attributes:
It affects your wisdom.
It speeds your regenerative powers.
It has been blessed by the gods.
[Press any key to continue]
that's all.

As SP says, bringing Wis from 11 to 12 shouldn't be all that significant.
It does not appear to have any sustain, nor to grant you any protection, nor seems immune itself from anything!

Maybe you mistook Blessed for Holy Avenger weapons, which are ALSO Blessed but not viceversa....

Actually, I DO have a Long Bow (x3) (+8,+8) shooting 80 Flight Arrows (2d4) (+4,+4) :)
and I'm keeping at home 27 Arrows of Wounding (3d4) (+10,+6)...
With such equipment, I sometimes find it's more effective to shoot even point-blank rather than melee, if it wasn't for the fear to lose my arrows.

BTW, I also have 2 SHOOTS per round with the Bow+Arrows.
I kept in my store a Light Crossbow (x4) (+7,+6) and 24 bolts (2d5) (+5,+3).
It is olnly slighty heavier than the Bow (6 v 4 lbs), but when I wield it my Shoots per Round drop to 0.83 (???)
Thus that the Arrows show 33 damage per shot and 66 per round, where the Bolts deal a higher dam per shot (51) but only 42 dam per round...
I figure then that the shots per round are only used as multiplier for the damage. I never saw indeed two shots attempts when firing with the bow, nor saw 2 arrows consumed at a time, nor had I to skip shooting when using the Bolts (which instead occurred in earlier versions IIRC)

25-08-2003, 08:34:04
Originally posted by Sir Penguin
You'll like the next challenge character, MoSe. :)

Qaj made me hope to find it already available to download by now... :(

25-08-2003, 08:57:57
On another note....
I found a scoll of ...Mundanity :confused:

It can't be sold in stores, thus is not regarded as an openly positive item (although you can't sell Summon Staves or Cloning Wands neither...)

I tried it (I kept a save to test-learn it further after I played the character properly for the challenge...), and it asks on which item you want to apply it.
If you apply it to a rod/staff/wand, it fires it and it also appears to recharge it a bit...

Sir Penguin
25-08-2003, 09:10:16
Two shots per round means that you can take two shots in the time it takes for a monster which moves at a normal speed to move one square; you just take the shots one at a time, and each takes half a round.

If Qaj doesn't have anything to argue with about my proposal for bonus point distribution (or if he just decides to ignore me), and if he's around, then I guess it should be up by this afternoon (GMT -8).


Sir Penguin
25-08-2003, 09:16:38
I think scrolls of mundanity make a goot weapon/armour normal. It's nasty, but not as nasty as a scroll of Curse ~. :)


Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
25-08-2003, 15:46:09
With any luck, it'll be up by this morning -8 GMT :)

I've just got into work and my de facto manager wants a work with me about actual work. The nerve!

25-08-2003, 16:51:21
do you still only use one arrow/round, regardless of shots/round?

Yes. I think.

25-08-2003, 20:22:35
MoSe, I could just be wrong, you know. ;) Or, it might have been something added past 2.4. Don't know... But the last Blessed blade I had, I used until I found this nifty artifact weapon.