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Drekkus
25-07-2003, 10:03:43
This morning I bought these two items:

http://www.club-3d.nl/files/pic2V.jpg

and

http://is41.introweb.nl/isroot/salland/SiteImages/cml174b.jpeg
Now all I need is to get them installed and working properly. :nervous:

Asher
25-07-2003, 12:57:06
Good job!

Asher
25-07-2003, 12:58:49
Canadian pride!!!!!

Drekkus
25-07-2003, 13:35:23
What's canadian? ATi, or Club 3d? I hear the card sometimes has problems with certain motherboards. But I reckon my epox board that I bought last won't have that problem.

zmama
25-07-2003, 13:54:21
Oooh, pretty!

ATi is the Canadian bit. Most likely you'll have to search out the most current drivers to get things to work right. The install disc often doesn't have the best drivers.
Have fun... :jealous:

No longer Trippin
26-07-2003, 05:18:19
Download the 3.6 Catalyst since it's a "Powered by ATI" board. If it can't run games in them, send it back and get a "Made by ATI" board. The latest Catalyst have been great at finding bad boards for some reason. If it runs them fine, then you have nothing to worry about.

Currently have a v/modded 9700 Pro "built by ATI" that is taking tons of abuse. Long as it last a solid year, then I'm happy. By then I'll have to upgrade due to having a 21" monitor and the 9800 PRO will have dropped as it will no longer be the king of ATI's hill.

Good choice on the flat screen... they are one of the companies that isn't as picky about dead "pixels" than most in their price range from what I remember from the article I read. Unless you want to pay quadruple the price you won't find one that will replace a TFT LCD with only one pixel that is off or lit one color or another constantly. Hitachi IIRC is 7 dead pixels total or 3 within 10cm which is about the industry standard. Tom's hardware had an article on what it would take to get a company to replace a faultly TFT LCD... listed all the players out there pretty much. Hitachi was with the middle of the pack, thus reasonable with it. Some would require even more than that, and wouldn't count ones which were constantly lit one color or another. That's one of the things keeping me in front of a CRT at the moment.

What epox board did you get?

No longer Trippin
26-07-2003, 05:20:16
Oh, and epox boards have no problems with ATI's, even those with the nforce 2 chipset... just if you got an 8rda(+) or 8rda3 PRO be bloody careful when installing the card, the dimm clips can pop a resistor off the back of the card easily, thus you may have to slightly bend the board. Not really a problem with ATI's compared to nVidia's since ATI's cards are smaller.

Drekkus
26-07-2003, 08:19:29
I got the 8rda+. All is up and running now. But can does a 17" TFT only work in 1280x1024? That's a bit too small for my taste. But when I try a different resolution, everything gets blurry. Not much difference on the vga or the DVI connection.

I've tried a few games now, and the images aren't as sharp as they were, letters are blurred as they are on a lower resolution.

I installed the 3.6 catalyst from the ATi site.

The hitachi comes with a 30 days dead pixel guarantee, btw.

maroule@home
26-07-2003, 08:51:03
The Happy Little Geek Guy

maroule@home
26-07-2003, 08:52:07
in truth, I'm jealous of the cool looking flat screen (even though I prefer my chubby Illyama vision master Pro 410)

No longer Trippin
26-07-2003, 19:50:57
Yep. that generally is the standard maximum size most 17" LCD TFTs. You lose a lot of image quality with LCD TFT's compared to CRTs. Even at the top end of the spectrum, I had a high end 20 inch LCD TFT that was awful compared to my CRT at work (nearly the same model I have at home), though both were high end. Even a high end LCD TFT won't match a run of the mill CRT in many areas. They have lower refresh rates, the contrast and sharpness leaves much to be desired at times (though contrast they have improved greatly even though they still have "ghosting." Happens from sharp changes in contrast, you'll see the image still there somewhat - almost transparent, hence why they call it ghosting. It's most commonly noticed though FPS games due to the sheer amount of movement of everything. Also your max refresh rate will be 60hz, though it's easier on the eyes at 60hz than a CRT at 60hz which generally you'd want at 75Hz. LCD TFT's are great if you have trouble with your eyes and sitting in front a monitor all day as that is the one area they blow CRT's away in is stress on the eyes. Just everyhing else on a LCD TFT will be inferior for awhile - technology just has to catch up to CRT's which have been around forever.

As for the board (I have it and it is an overclockers dream and nightmare - though it is the best overclocker)

If you have a lot of power outages and run XP... XP's repair utility on the CD will become your best friend, as the soundstorm audio loves to go out in power outages and you can't just reinstall the drivers, or roll them back. You HAVE to run repair to reload the OS (though your registry is intact, so you don't have to reload everything to get it to know it's there in terms of software and hardware), though it will then prompt on repair for the epox disk with mobo drivers and force them to install, then after waiting for windows to complete the rest of it's usual install garbage (though you don't have to reregister - even though it looks like you will), then your done after it resets your system. That's why I through my audigy 2 plat. when I got back down here due to all the power outages. Had one in the first two days with all the storms... took out the sound... did repair, got it working again and then decided to throw in the soundcard from my previous system instead of selling it. Now if it goes out, I don't care. Not every outtage will do it, most won't... but when it happens, it's annoying. That is my one major gripe with the nforce 2 MCP-T southbridge, that's also why it isn't on the 8rda3+ Pro... due to overclockers having to jump through hoops if it crashes wrong to get it back up - though they have onboard audio, it isn't soundstorm, and it kills CPU performance as it's the standard C Media BS. Soundstorm takes away less power than a regular audigy 2, in fact its at the top of the line in terms of not robbing the cpu.

If you will be overclocking, well it's a great board to say the least. I was hitting a bit past 2.4 ghz up from 1.83 that's the 2500 barton (2.2 flat is a 3200+) before the AC went out and it was running highly overclocked and the nb crapped out - should have went with watercooling instead of the iceburg, but oh well. Back to 333 Sync'ed FSB for me from 422 Sync'ed. :( You need to do some mods though, depending on stepping and if you have the revision 2 board (you can adjust vdd voltage there instead of soldering a resistor to a chip - so you'll know if it's R2 if you have four options to adjust in your bios under voltage instead of 3). As always, download the latest bios and install it. I take it you got the board as you plan to overclock or it was the cheapest quality nforce board out there?

Drekkus
26-07-2003, 22:21:00
Ehm, ok, you lost me there somewhere in the middle, NLT. I'm not THAT much of a geek, you know. :D

So is there no way I can adjust my settings to get a normal (=bigger) look and feel, without strechting or blurring things too much?

No longer Trippin
27-07-2003, 03:57:13
Most likely, no.

I'm assuming your running XP, but this applies to the other OS's as well, just XP supposedly can make LCD TFT's look better (at least that is what it toutes during install). Go to Settings - Control Panal - System - Hardware - Device Manager - and check what it says for your monitor (click on it, there should be a drop down from the tree - it should show either your monitor itself (manufacturer, model or something), or flat screen, LCD, whatever. If it shows it as Default Monitor it most likely isn't running XP configured for flat screen, though I'm guessing the difference isn't much.

Look in your monitors manual, that should list the maximum resolutions and whatnot. LCD's should be automatically detected, like any new CRT as to it's abilities, when it can't detect it, it just uses default settings - hence "default monitor." So things should be correct. Only thing that I could think of is that it's still thinking for some odd reason you have the older monitor. If so, right click in device manager and click "Scan for Hardware changes." If it changes things well then that was a problem, if not, well then it can't be changed.

You can customize a lot of windows characteristics by instead of going into the hardware tab, click advanced, then under performance click settings, set it for best appearance - if that makes it worse, go for best performance (sometimes things are odd like that). That's about the best you can do. LCD's just don't have the sharpness and seperation that CRT's have in general.

You trade size for image quality right now. I'd love to get rid of my 21" behemoth, but until the image quality improves, I'm not going to get one until it gets close to the current quality. In a couple years they should be there for sure I'd imagine with companies making greater yields and getting better at the process it isn't that far off.

zmama
27-07-2003, 10:34:01
Drekkus, try Settings- Control panel- display- appearance and set font size to large. That might make it a bit easier on the eyes.

Drekkus
28-07-2003, 09:25:09
Fuck. Excuse le mot, but yesterday I saw that I have a dead pixel in my screen. No big deal , since Hitachi has a 30 day dead pixel guarantee. So I called this morning to the store, which refered to Hitachi. And they tell me it's a dead SUB-pixel (it's locked on green) and they do'n't replace those. Fuckers. So I called back to the store, and they are now contacting Hitachi, and then will get back to me.
The dead pixel guarantee was one of the reasons I choose for the Hitachi. I din't even check the screen in the store, cause I thought that if it had a dead pixel, it would be replaced anyway.
:bash: It's not all that bad, since it only shows on a black screen, but when I spent almost 500 for a monitor, I want the damn thing to be without faults.

Anyway, I set the font size to large, icons to large, etc. It's more readable now, but it looks a bit weird. CG has big letters now, but some other sites still have the teensy weensy font. Plus for some sites (like hotmail) only about half the screen gets filled, the rest is just white.

BUT, the gaming. Ooooh boy! Took me a while to get all my games set in the right videomode and resolution, but what a thrill!! I play a lot of flight sims, and with the radeon in 1280X1024 it's absolutely fantastic! MOHAA and BF1942 are awesome! The detail, the colordepth, texture, everything. They look like different games now. Strategygames give a big playing screen with a lot more detail.

So even though I'm now not sure about the service deal, I'm still glad I bought the thing. Also because it looks pretty cool on my desk (but i do need a black keyboard and mouse now :) ).

Drekkus
28-07-2003, 14:26:11
Yay again. Got a call from the store. They are still waiting for an answer from Hitachi, but they assured me that no matter what, they would replace the screen. So that's a relief. Pretty good service, since I don't think they have to do it.

No longer Trippin
28-07-2003, 19:30:40
Your lucky it wasn't in the State's... you'd be stuck with that monitor unless you raised all kinds off hell.

Yes, that is a problem with all but one companies warranty... it applies to dead pixels and when you have pixels which are lit only one color it can be annoying depending on color and placement. Like a red pixel in the middle of the screen. Red seems to be the worst to get.

Glad you like it and are getting a fresh one to boot. They are just going to sell it to someone else. Better their problem than yours. :)

Drekkus
30-07-2003, 11:31:26
Been back to the store yesterday, to replace my screen. I couldn't test the new one there, but can change it again if it has the same problem. And it has :rolleyes: In the left upper corner, again a subpixel stuck on green.

So I now have to either make peace with the fact that these screens are hardly ever perfect, or keep driving back and forth until I have a faultless screen.

zmama
30-07-2003, 15:47:55
Make peace.
No monitor is perfect, not even CRTs. For example, I prefer trinitron displays for their crispness, but they have shadow lines at the top and bottom... :P~~~~~~~~

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
30-07-2003, 16:26:45
We bought about a hundred flat panel 18.1" monitors within the last year and a half at work (we would have ordered more but we're going through a budget crisis) and I haven't seen one of them have pixel problems yet. It's not THAT common, so I'd be tempted to just keep returning it (and make sure there was some way of testing it before carting it home - got a laptop you could borrow and take with you?) until I got one that worked 100%.

Drekkus
30-07-2003, 21:55:39
Did you test all hundred for dead subpixels? it's not like I miss part of my screen or anything, it's just a teensy weensy green little dot on the upper left part of my screen, like a dust particle or something. It doesn't really bother me, it bothers me that my screen isn't faultless. But since I'm very lazy, I can't see myself disconnecting my monitor, packing it, driving 20 km., switching, go home the same distance, etc., until I finally get a flawless one.

Darkstar
30-07-2003, 22:31:55
Take a computer with you to test them, Drekkus. As suggested.

They don't make sure the monitors are flawless because lazy people don't take the monitors back.

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
31-07-2003, 00:16:31
Well, we deployed about 85 of them so far, we've got 5 more to do before the end of the week and around 10 still in the warehouse. But no, we haven't seen any strange pixel effects of any of them.

No longer Trippin
31-07-2003, 07:14:15
What are they being used for, and would those people notice and care anyhow?

Drekkus
01-08-2003, 11:53:59
Yay again. I went to the store for the third time, took a laptop with mee to test in the store. If the new one would have a bad pixel, i would have chosen the one with the least annoying one. But as far as I could tell, the new one is fault free. Didn't have a good testscreen, but I couldn't detect anything wrong with it, which is probably good enough. So I'm a happy little tree now.

I have managed to get a black keyboard and mouse from work. Looks pretty cool. All I need now is a new soundset. The boxes i have now are white, doesn't really fit. I don't think I'll go for the mega 7 piece surround sound systems, all the wires I have now are allready very annoying.
So is a system with a subwoofer and two boxes allright? Anyone any recommendations?

zmama
01-08-2003, 13:22:02
How much you wanna spend? :D :D :D

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
01-08-2003, 20:13:44
Originally posted by No longer Trippin
What are they being used for, and would those people notice and care anyhow?

Being used as general office desktop machines. People would notice - they sit at them most of the day entering data into a Internet-based case management system we have. Stupid - we're in California, our data and the software are in Florida. I do not look forward to the day they get DDoS'd...

I'd notice pixel faults too, since I have to go fix their machines on occasion. Heck, the three I have hooked up to this workstation are fine, and so are my co-worker's three :)

Drekkus
01-08-2003, 20:57:07
Originally posted by zmama
How much you wanna spend? :D :D :D I dunno. Haven't paid any attention on pc speakers for years. I've found this set. Looks OK to me.

http://www3.alternate.nl/prodpic/200x200/k/kvzc25.jpg

No longer Trippin
02-08-2003, 06:18:22
zmama: How old and what version and size is your Trinitron? Don't see them at all on mine - I have seen them on some older ones at the firm I worked for, also on a few "lower end" Trinitrons... not on the most though.

zmama
02-08-2003, 11:18:33
Trip...old, cheap(ish) and 17in

zmama
02-08-2003, 11:38:51
Drekkus, take a look at the Altec Lansing 2100 (in the same price range). It's personal preference with speakers and I think they sound better than the CreativeLabs...you might not.

Then save up your money for a really good pair of Sennheiser or AKG headphones for listening to the funk! ;)

http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/large_images/608/10312608.jpg

No longer Trippin
02-08-2003, 15:04:49
I can't help you on speakers... using reference speakers, preamp, amp, etc. I've heard the logitechs are good for gaming.. but nearly everytime I hear it, it is cause it has "great bass." So that just means the kids like having their head rattled, not really caring for actual sound. I'd go with zmama's choice with my experience with AL in the past, overall rather smooth. A little sharper and more defined midrange with some slightly enhanced bottom end, but nothing overtly boomy from what I remember and would hear others saying.

Try them out in the store... if it's boomy in the store, it will be worse when you get home most likely as the sound is then trapped in a smaller space. You'll at least get a decent idea of how each will sound, and the high and mids should be nearly identical to home depending on if you have some absurd speaker placement or not. Definantly recommend trying any out in the store and ask if they allow in home testing (most places now down here get pissy when you mention it - but it's the US, so of course they will get pissy).

Headphones: bah - headphones piss me off... not only do I now still have to guess the direction the sound comes from (in FPS), I also can't hear half of them. Bloody deaf ear - would have saved a lot of money on speakers, amp, and all if I could use them. :(

Zmama: That might be why. Early and "cheaper" (if you can apply that term to them, especially early on) Trinitrons, even the high end ones at the time, you could see two wires running horizontal across the screen clear as day... it's greatly improved with time to where I have to have to really look and make my eyes bleed. Has to do with how they are made... take those wires away and you'd want them back as the screen needs them due to it's design. Guess your picking up that a good bit... sorry to hear it... but the trade off is worthwhile considering how good trinitron's look graphically. I love mine... when it dies (hope not as they ain't cheap) I'll get another one until LCD's actually don't have problems so much and improve a bit graphically - which they have done, it's just they need to fix the pixel problems now.

zmama
02-08-2003, 15:59:42
Oh, I don't even notice the lines unless I look for them, anymore. They are very faint and not a problem. I was just using them as an example of how even the best isn't absolutely 100% perfect.
:)

No longer Trippin
02-08-2003, 16:04:28
Never will be.. but for the cost, I'd rather plunk down that much for a nice quality CRT (which has a bigger screen) than an LCD of the same prive. LCD's are just nice as they don't kill deskspace - commonly we used them as secondary monitors.