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View Full Version : Interesting EverQuest metrics, economics, and sexism


Darkstar
25-06-2003, 23:28:06
According to a recent article published by the EverQuest Economics Professor (imagine, getting paid to do nothing but 'research' EverQuest!)...

92% of all players in EverQuest are male. 100% play female characters part time to full time.

Female characters are worth 12% less then equal stat/developed/level characters on the EQ $$$ sales sites.

Female characters get treated like idiots/blondes/newbies by the vast majority (including the odd female player running male avatars), regardless of the fact that most female characters are actually males, and can be/are equally levelled/skilled with the male avatar characters.

Venom
26-06-2003, 00:02:05
I read this too, but it also said on average, the female characters are also less experieced. That counts a ton when weighing EQ value.

Darkstar
26-06-2003, 00:20:57
The published one I saw said that WHEN the characters were equal level and stats, they still went for %12 less then the equal male character. Where did you run across mention of this, Venom?

Sean
26-06-2003, 00:35:13
Yeah, but don’t most players get treated as newbies?

Greg W
26-06-2003, 03:30:55
Interesting, I have played the game for 3 years, and have never noticed Female characters being treated like newbs. Obviously I do not play with the "vast majority" of players (tho I do play a male in game). :rolleyes:

Shining1
26-06-2003, 09:36:15
F3m@l3z R G@Y, nOOb!

j00 $uxoR!

Venom
26-06-2003, 12:13:53
Originally posted by Darkstar
The published one I saw said that WHEN the characters were equal level and stats, they still went for %12 less then the equal male character. Where did you run across mention of this, Venom?

Shit. Can't exactly remember. Which doesn't help my case at all.

Venom
26-06-2003, 13:56:04
"Overall, male avatars sold for an average of $346, while the generally lower skilled female ones went for $281. The discrepancy notably mirrors differences in wages earned by men and women in the real-world, says Castronova."

Directly from the article. Which I guess is more than 12%. But those are the only exact numbers the article gives I think. It doesn't say that equally leveled female characters go for 300. I'm just going off the "generally lower skilled female ones" line.

LadyRachel
26-06-2003, 14:55:31
Here's an article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3016434.stm

"In the study of avatar economics Prof Castronova used the prices paid for 611 auctions that took place on PlayerAuctions.com between October 2002 and January 2003.

In these auctions, players paid an average price of $333 (200). The lowest price paid for an EverQuest character was $40 and the highest $2,250.

Curiously, female characters sold for less than a male character of equivalent level.

"All else [being] equal, a female avatar sells for about $41 less than a male avatar, which is about 12 percent of the mean price of $333," writes Prof Castronova."

Funkodrom
26-06-2003, 15:38:52
Nearly posted that story yesterday but couldn't be bothered in the end.

Venom
26-06-2003, 15:58:06
The article I read was slightly differant than that. Evern using different numbers for statistics. Such as 10% instead of 12% among other things.

Darkstar
26-06-2003, 23:15:33
I posted it just to start a new thread.

Venom, your quote looks like the article I saw.

Greg, I really don't know how people treat each other in EQ. Never played it. I found the statement interesting though. In the MMP RPGs I have played, people tended to treat each other the same. But I haven't done that in many years, so all these whippersnappers may have a different culture. What do I know? I just found it interesting that the statements, taken together (100% of all men play women part to full time ; women characters are treated like women in the RW/poorly/disrespectfully/like children ) VERY interesting. When you are a guy, and play gal characters, why *would* you treat other female characters as if they were different then you? Is that how they would want to be treated if they happened to be XX of XY in RL?

Without the 'virtual girls are treated sexistly' statement in the article, the difference in equally leveled characters of different sexes selling at different prices looks like a pure supply and demand situation. After all, if 92% of the player base of EQ is male, then so long as most of those would prefer a male character means that would carry through when buying a character. So less demand for female characters. But tag in the other statement, and is that all that is behind it?

Shining1
27-06-2003, 00:13:27
Chances are that if people are going to shell out $10-$100 for an account, they aren't messing around. You want a specific avatar, and if you're male, there's a good chance you want a male one. Experimenting with a female character is all very well, but not when you're laying out $333.

The discrepancy between account prices makes sense according to supply and demand laws, since logically about 90% of those people buying accounts are male (as 90% of players are male).

Venom
27-06-2003, 01:36:00
A very good point Shiny. It may just be a side effect of demand, and not sexism. Which is what the media wants to believe so they can hammer out some kind of expose on the inequality of the digital world.

Shining1
27-06-2003, 02:54:52
Well, the inequality is there, with th 90% thing. No need for any shock horror revelations there.

I suspect as far as people who purchase accounts go, it might be more than 90% male, too. Paying $333 for an account implies that you have $333 to spend on a single game, which argues for adult participation. I don't know what the figures are on adult females planning their lives around everquest, but this seems way more of a pathetic loser guy kind of thing than a neurotic fat bitch one.

Of course I might be completely wrong there:D.

The other aspect I'm curious about is the metric for comparing the accounts. What is 'equal'. In my Diablo2 experience, you can make a level 30 Barbarian that is almost able to survive in Hell difficulty, or a level 30 Barbarian that can't cut it in the later stages of Normal diff.

Assuming that guys are making and selling all these female accounts, I wonder if they are designed to be more 'social' playing experiences, geared around cool and good looking effects instead of useful ones. In which case, people are again going to be less keen to spend up large on them.

There's a ton of arguements one way or the other. Personally, I think it's a sign that more women should start being pathetic losers instead of neurotic and fat.

BigGameHunter
27-06-2003, 15:19:59
Let me get this straight--there's a game where people will pay 4 large for a fucking character? Huh?

Darkstar
27-06-2003, 19:06:11
BGH, there are people who pay their mortgage by doing nothing other then playing EQ, building up the character, and then selling it.

Also people that do nothing but play EQ, going after rare items, and then turning around and selling them. Often are the same people that build up characters to sell them...

Welcome to the world of professional avatar growing...

BigGameHunter
27-06-2003, 19:53:07
Wow!
Anybody want to buy a slightly used and poorly run Sim City? You can rename it whatever you want!

Sean
27-06-2003, 19:55:31
I’ve got a few Champ Man games for sale. A completed Virtua Tennis, perhaps?

Darkstar
27-06-2003, 20:04:16
BGH... according to a couple of different news pieces I saw on professional avatar growth and rare item selling, Pro EQ players make between $70K to $80K a year. Of course, they play EQ on average for 9 hours a day, 6 days a week, but still...

Ultima Online Pros made between $40K to $60K, depending on a few things that didn't sink in on me at the time. But they were only spending 4 to 7 hours, 4 days a week at it, IIRC...

BigGameHunter
27-06-2003, 20:09:35
Jesus...that makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
Of course, I'm not about to supplant my CM addiction with an EQ addiction, so I guess I'll never know the thrill.
Though you can play EQ online through the PS2 now, can't you? Hmmmmm.....

Qaj the Fuzzy Love Worm
27-06-2003, 21:00:49
"sexistly"?? :lol:

Greg W
29-06-2003, 03:47:03
As an aside, I do know one person who has never had a female character. Says he finds the whole shemale thing repulsive. So the 100% figure is not entirely true over the entire community.

Oddly enough, I actually found that I got treated differently when I played a female character at one time. I got given lots of stuff for free that my male character never got. And I never ever tried to portray myself as anything other than a male person behind the character, either by innuendo or otherwise. Sometimes as a female you'd get given stuff just for being female. Was very weird, and in the end I went back to my male character after about 6 months...

BGH - you'd be amazed at what some people will do to get ahead in EQ. It's like a little mini socio economical world out there, complete with politics. You should read some of the server message boards, there's rants there that'd cause a truck driver to blush. :D

BigGameHunter
29-06-2003, 07:51:07
I'm frightened of these people, but fortunately they never leave their homes.
I'm afraid that if they do they'll have to be hunted down and killed like the potential menace they obviously are.

Amazing.

Darkstar
30-06-2003, 18:27:36
Greg, I figured that there had to be a few guys that play EQ that haven't made and played a female character. But it sounds like the Professor EQ there thinks it's very low. ;)

BGH, you shouldn't say that. There were 3 serious EQ players in the previous group that shared the same cube farm as my group. They would plan out all their activities during the work day, hit that 8 hour mark, and run home to go hit EQ. So apparently, some EQ people can and do leave the house. Of course, that was to hold a job to afford their EQ habit, but... and 2 of those were parents, so they did occassionally do things like drop the kids off on the way to work or pick them up on their way home to play EQ.

BigGameHunter
30-06-2003, 20:21:11
I don't know...the screenshots of EQ don't seem to justify the fanaticism to me...but hey, as long as they aren't shooting Drano...more power to them.
Can't imagine being a decent parent and spending that much "free" time on a game...doesn't sound possible. Must go through a lot of Nyquil in those homes.

Darkstar
30-06-2003, 21:00:26
Are you kidding? The eldest was just getting to the age to be able to be dragged along with the parents through EQ. Of course, since it was the parent's favorite thing, that made it immediately the biggest uncool and most boring thing in the world, so I suppose there's hope for the next generation...

It's not the graphics. Heck, it really isn't the game play, BGH. It's the social setting. Instead of having to figure out someplace to go hang out, those games let people hang out with other people, from the comfort of their own homes, and gives them a basic framework to go play in. From the talks I had with friends that play, half of it isn't anything other then cyber sex, and most of the rest of what goes on is just basic "hanging out and drinking" with friends. Beer and pretzels Dungeon and Dragons, basically. It isn't the game, its the "doing things with friends".

I did some MMP RPG way back before they got decent enough to charge for access. It was simple IM/IRC chats with friends; tons of people using it to hook up and make sticky keys ; and some politicking and role playing without much game mechanics required most of the time. All that, with an occasional side line of doing an adventure or quest. Although I'm sure Brother Greg will correct me where I'm wrong. :)

BigGameHunter
30-06-2003, 21:23:41
You're a bunch of sick freaks, the lot of you!

Darkstar
30-06-2003, 22:16:26
What's sick about it? Well, other then dragging your kids into it? :)

And I don't know about now, but it was a good way to hook up with some nyphomanical gals, way back when. Of course, they were just as likely to be stalking, obsessive, nyphomanical gals back then, and may have just decided to obsess on you without you doing anything to actually have engaged them first, but ... hum... you know, that still sounds like nothing has changed. ;)

BigGameHunter
30-06-2003, 23:06:38
I don't know where these people are on the net, 'cause I never find them. And on ICQ my opening line never seems to work. What am I doing wrong? I see these knee-biters on tv always getting in trouble with teens and wonder what pickup they are using, 'cause I sure don't have it.
:(

Venom
01-07-2003, 02:43:52
You're such a gigantic ass biter that even the internet can't hide it.

Greg W
01-07-2003, 06:29:15
It's really a social thing BGH. Tell me for example why you post a lot here on CG, and why you use ICQ? Cos you get to meet (in a way) interesting people, right? You get to chat about stuff. Same with EQ. Except with EQ, you also get the added bonus of a game thrown in to boot.

The call about 1/2 of it being cybersex is obviously those particular people exaggerating to an extent. I've had a few people try a bit of it on me, but it's really not my thing.

To be fair though, the game play in Everquest is at the least, comparable to an everage standard game. One that might get 3 stars out of 5.

BigGameHunter
01-07-2003, 07:19:50
Really? Hmmm...
Why not a "game" where people plan better cities, compose music together, hell, have sex...all with a graphics palette to work with?
That's what I'd like...a CG bar or something where I could put a mickey in Venom's beer, cover him with blue cheese and throw him in a dark, windowless room with Maroule.

Sir Penguin
01-07-2003, 07:27:42
I'll get to work on it. But it will probably have to be text-based.

SP

maroule
01-07-2003, 08:20:11
:p@bgh

Darkstar
01-07-2003, 19:51:08
BGH, if you really want to hot chat a 14 year old girl, you have to go hang out where they hang out. But I am presuming you aren't interested in 14 year old gals... just 43 year old balding accountants that like to pretend they are 14 year old school girls/cheerleaders.

Brother Greg, I think 50% is not an exaggeration. It does seem that half the people that I talk to that 'play' these MMP RPGs do it primarily for all the hot chats. Of course, they would 'game' less, so if you aren't into making your keyboard sticky, then you probably aren't going to hang out in the same circles and therefore you aren't going to bump into that often as you will be busy doing your thing, and they will be busy doing someone's thing...

I'm not picking on anything. You can round up hot chat anywhere there are lots of people together on the net. From Apolyton chat rooms to RTS matching lounges... anywhere you have a good sized crowd, you generally have a few people looking for a hot chat link up.

BigGameHunter
01-07-2003, 21:32:39
Please stop saying 'hot chat'.

Darkstar
01-07-2003, 21:51:07
Why? You are the one continuiously asking how you can get into trouble with teenage girls...

Sir Penguin
01-07-2003, 22:21:20
It's getting him hot & bothered.

SP

BigGameHunter
02-07-2003, 14:48:34
Exactly.

Darkstar
02-07-2003, 21:29:51
Oh. Well, go take a cold shower then.