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King_Ghidra@home
16-06-2003, 22:41:14
So the new book is out this week but i don't want to talk about that, because i recently got the first four books in a set and have started reading them.

In short, i think they're brilliant. They are clever and funny, the pace of the books is excellent and the fantasy world the characters inhabit is brilliantly imagined and realised.

So far i've read books one and two and i have just started number three. They actually get longer each time: Book 1 was c.200pp, book two c.250pp, this one is c.350pp, book four is about 600pp and i think the new one is about 700.

The strange thing now is that i am in non-movie territory for the first time, having seen the two films before reading the first two books. Despite these being great works of imagination i suppose i have been slightly constrained by the images in my mind that have been realised in the films.

Well at any rate, i am virtually addicted to reading them, and compared to my previous experience with War and Peace, which was like a good long smoke, this is more like a blast of crack.

BigGameHunter
16-06-2003, 23:23:43
So what book would you equate to a bong hit?
You know, there are some liberal arts schools that would probably pay you to teach your "Literature as Drugs" course!

"Now we'll be examining 'Madame Bovary' from the heroin suppository perspective..."



Actually this Harry Potter fervor makes me want to read the CS Lewis series again....that was a great fantasy ride as a kid.

maroule
17-06-2003, 07:00:20
I loved the first potter, liked the second one, and felt stiffed by the third one, realising it was the exact same story over and over again

Sir Penguin
17-06-2003, 07:17:02
I loved the third one, thought the second was OK, and was less than thrilled about the first one (I read them in reverse order). I never realised, nor did I care, that they're all the same.

SP

maroule
17-06-2003, 07:37:11
I loved the first potter, liked the second one, and felt stiffed by the third one, realising it was the exact same story over and over again

maroule
17-06-2003, 07:37:49
I loved the first potter, liked the second one, and felt stiffed by the third one, realising it was the exact same story over and over again.

maroule
17-06-2003, 07:39:07
if on top of that you pay me 20 euros for each post, you'll have an idea of what I mean

maroule
17-06-2003, 07:40:08
I mean how do you penguins survive? you seem to be the dodos of the icebergs

King_Ghidra
17-06-2003, 07:53:29
Originally posted by maroule
I loved the first potter, liked the second one, and felt stiffed by the third one, realising it was the exact same story over and over again

Yeah i could see how that might happen. I'm hoping for the best - there's a lot to enjoy in the writing and the characters regardless of the plot. Although that said, i do somewhat dread the next quidditch match.

Funkodrom
17-06-2003, 07:56:59
Glad you are liking them. :)

Darkstar
18-06-2003, 05:02:42
They aren't the SAME story. Although they do follow her basic story style. A light mystery (TV level). However, it *is* supposed to be for kids, so don't go expecting the greatest of plots, twists, and turns. I've liked the series so far. But then, I'm not expecting the greatest of all literary works in it...

Scud Wallaby
18-06-2003, 19:35:07
I was going to read these but never got round to it - what's really bugging me now though (in a minor way... i'm really not this sad...) is that having not read them yet, i'm now going to have to somehow avoid finding out who gets bumped off in the latest installment.

Or read all four books tomorrow...

-Scud-

Darkstar
18-06-2003, 22:20:19
A red shirt, effectively...

Rodgers
22-06-2003, 23:19:42
I liked Waterstone's scam to sell all their stocks of an otherwise heavily discounted book at full rate - ie by opening at midnight so as to take advantage of too-eager childrens' lust for the new episode. Still, when did ripping off kids stop being any kind of a scandal? Fucking years ago probably.

Havent read the books but the above annoyed me enough to post it.

Darkstar
23-06-2003, 22:45:22
Well, they did the midnight thing here with the new book. And all the stores had it marked between 40% to 60% off to begin with. When some buyers combined that with their various 'loyality' cards (5 to 25% off whatever they buy), some people got it for a song...

GP
24-06-2003, 14:12:30
Originally posted by Rodgers
I liked Waterstone's scam to sell all their stocks of an otherwise heavily discounted book at full rate - ie by opening at midnight so as to take advantage of too-eager childrens' lust for the new episode. Still, when did ripping off kids stop being any kind of a scandal? Fucking years ago probably.

Havent read the books but the above annoyed me enough to post it.

It's not a scandal. Those kids have more money than sense. Their parents should beat them more. :bounce:

Rodgers
25-06-2003, 08:20:26
Sadly, thats about to become illegal here :(

Funkodrom
25-06-2003, 08:44:29
You'll have to employ someone else to beat your children.

I have the new book, am saving it to read when I go on holiday on Friday.

King_Ghidra
25-06-2003, 08:58:40
i'm going to wait for the paperback version, i hate hardbacks

200 pages into number 4, probably read a bit more on the journey to glastonbury this weekend

Funkodrom
25-06-2003, 09:00:15
I love hardbacks. They feel like proper books.

GP
25-06-2003, 14:00:11
Is it any good? Same as the other ones? Or a dropoff in quality. DISH!!

Darkstar
25-06-2003, 23:01:15
Book 5? I thought it was decent, on level with the series over all. I wouldn't say it is the best in the serious. I thought the plot was a bit straighter then the others. If you _LIKE_ HP, then you'll want to read it. But it is not going to make a fan out of anyone that isn't a fan already...

fp
29-06-2003, 23:37:23
Originally posted by GP
Is it any good?

Yes.

Same as the other ones? Or a dropoff in quality.

Similar, yes. It is very much genre-fiction after all - there's a definite pace and certain rules these things have to follow. No big surprises. It's more of the same in many ways, but if you liked it to begin with you'll be happy with it.

DISH!!

You're a bit of a ducky yourself.

Darkstar
30-06-2003, 18:19:45
Humm... GP... FP... where's EP? Just or does that persona only posts in the Music forum?

King_Ghidra
01-07-2003, 09:04:31
I've finished 1-4 now. 4 is probably my favourite, depressing ending though, it's kind of the 'empire strikes back' of the harry potter world.

I really want to read 5 but i refuse to buy it until the paperback comes out.

Funkodrom
01-07-2003, 09:38:53
5 is really good.

Vincent
01-07-2003, 19:24:08
and heavy

Darkstar
01-07-2003, 19:30:54
Funko, do you prefer 5 over 2? #2 was your favorite, previously, IIRC...

GP
09-07-2003, 04:55:06
I read it. It was fine...

GP
09-07-2003, 04:55:28
Will 6 and 7 come quick now?

GP
09-07-2003, 04:55:51
I mean she needs to catch up time...

Funkodrom
09-07-2003, 10:11:33
Originally posted by Darkstar
Funko, do you prefer 5 over 2? #2 was your favorite, previously, IIRC...

I don't remember that...

Actually I think they get better as the series goes on, mainly because they get longer. :)

It's 3 years since I read the first 4 so at the moment the new one is my favourite because it's the one I read most recently.

Darkstar
09-07-2003, 16:52:01
Well, I think #6 should come in the next couple of years (she is already 6 months in on writing it, of course). #7 will probably take 4 years, considering it will basically wrap up almost all the loose threads in the series...

BigGameHunter
09-07-2003, 19:02:42
I wish Harry Fucking Potter would die!
I'm sick of his played out ass, I tell you.
Just glad my kid is too young to buy into the whole thing...mercifully, I only have the Teletubbies to deal with.

You Brits and your damnable entertainment imports.

Funkodrom
10-07-2003, 09:37:42
Have you read them?

The Shaker
10-07-2003, 09:53:21
doesn't matter if you read them of not, you can still be sick of the over merchandised dickwad.

Funkodrom
10-07-2003, 09:56:23
Yeah. :(

That's the film company's fault though.

The Shaker
10-07-2003, 10:20:28
well yes....
wankers.

I might give the first book a try...
but after managing half the film the other day before get bored to death i'm not too hopeful.

Funkodrom
10-07-2003, 10:27:11
The film is shite.

Sean
10-07-2003, 10:53:37
Originally posted by Funkodrom
That's the film company's fault though.
Uh-huh. Good old Joanne Rowling (the K is for marKeting), the poor, downtrodden author as described in a Kory thread, and her evil film company selling these things to make her money.

Funkodrom
10-07-2003, 13:28:15
:D

Funkodrom
10-07-2003, 13:29:12
I'm not sure she gets royalties from the merch though, might be under the film licence agreement. Mind you anyone who signs away the merch rights after Star Wars needs shooting.

Sean
10-07-2003, 13:33:06
Unless it’s what I generally call a ‘good film,’ i.e. one with no merchandising.

Kome to think of it, the K kould stand for Kory. Kricey.

Sir Penguin
10-07-2003, 17:53:55
"Good" in the moral sense, not the quality, right?

SP

Darkstar
10-07-2003, 17:56:24
Well, she gets to renegotiate the film and merchanidising deals, so if she isn't getting a big enough slice of the action before, she will afterward.

According to the Brit rags, she's the richest female subject, richer then the Queen herself. However, JK says that is a load of BS, and the estimates of how much she's profitting from all the merchanidising, films, and books isn't nearly what people think it is. She isn't complaining about it though...

BigGameHunter
10-07-2003, 22:03:07
I doubt I will read it now...perhaps I'll read it to my son later.
It's just too much...same reason I have never seen Titanic, etc...at a certain point, the fanatical bandwagon seems just too bizarre and frightening to me and I avoid it like the plague.
Maybe I'm just jealous, but really...there's something distasteful to me about fads.

If I'm going to read a good fantasy series, as stated before, it will be the "Narnia" books. Written by a much more talented Englishperson in my opinion. Plus, the morality play is more clear and subtle if you ask me.

I saw the first movie, which was "ok"...but it didn't make me want to race out and buy the books...my wife, however, has expressed an interest.

GP
10-07-2003, 23:17:07
I was against it too, because I heard too much about it. But when I read it, I like it. BGH is full of shit.

King_Ghidra
11-07-2003, 08:19:49
Originally posted by BigGameHunter

If I'm going to read a good fantasy series, as stated before, it will be the "Narnia" books. Written by a much more talented Englishperson in my opinion. Plus, the morality play is more clear and subtle if you ask me.


so you base these opinions that cs lewis is more talented and that the morality play is more subtle on what basis exactly?

until you read the book (because let's not kid ourselves that the film is the same) you're just another ignoramus shouting off about something you don't know

Funkodrom
11-07-2003, 09:07:13
I have read all the CS Lewis books and all the Harry Potter books.

I really enjoyed all of the, although I was much younger when I read the CS Lewis books. They did get quite samey towards the end as well. I felt some of the later ones were a bit contrived to keep the story going. Still very good but I don't think you'd miss much if you just read the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe.

The Potter books have got a much more linear story, although each book is structured around a school year when each book finishes you know there is more to come and there are enough threads of the next story to keep you interested until the next book arrives.

Sean
11-07-2003, 11:52:24
Oh, you would. A Horse and His Boy was great, and The Voyage of the Dawn Treader. I never did care for The Silver Chair, though.

Funkodrom
11-07-2003, 11:55:47
Ok, maybe I was a little harsh... The Voyage of the Dawn Treader was my favourite I think.

GP
11-07-2003, 19:47:20
If you want something sorta like HP or CS Lewis, read the Prydain books (5 of them) by Lloyd Alexander. THey are really top notch. One won a Newbury.

BigGameHunter
11-07-2003, 20:57:52
You can't possibly want to put the writings of an acclaimed Christian surrealist up against a tinhorn like Rowling can you?
I have read portions of Mr. Potter's tale and it is good entertainment, but it conveys only one dimension of meaning, unlike the writing of C.S. Lewis, who had whole books that on the surface were also "good entertainment" but contained within them a subtle morality play. The iconography of Aslan alone could fuel a 100,000 word thesis, whereas Rowling's portrayal of "good vs. evil" seems trite by comparison.
"They say Aslan's on the move," whispered the Beaver. "and now a very curious thing happened. None of the children knew who Aslan was any more than you do; but the moment the Beaver had spoken these words everyone felt quite different, as if it had enormous meaning that you remember all your life. Perhaps it has sometimes happened to you in a dream that someone says something which you don't understand but in the dream it feels as if it had some enormous meaning & either a terrifying one which turns the whole dream into a nightmare or else a lovely meaning too lovely to put into words, which makes the dream so beautiful that you remember it all your life and are always wishing you could get into that dream again. It was like that now. At the name of Aslan each one of the children felt something jump in his inside.

Finally Susan asked, "Who is Aslan?" The Beaver replied, "Aslan? He's the king. He's the Lord of the whole wood, the son of the great Emperor-Beyond-the-Sea, the great Lion."
***

Obviously it is a metaphoric examination of the Creator, and goes much deeper into realms of human experience, mysticism and spirituality than Rowling's works do. She tells a good tale about wizards and monsters and barf flavored candy and whatnot, but there is only a summary mystery touching on universal themes. It is, admittedly, like comparing apples and oranges, but you threw the gauntlet back at me, so some justification on my part is required.
For me, on the sole basis that Lewis' work is uni-dimensional vs. the relatively one dimensional Potter series, I would forsake the latter for the former.
I'm not saying I don't read non-layered writing, but one is a universal tale of sin, search and retribution portrayed on a sweeping backdrop of worlds in upheaval in the oldest struggle known to humankind, while the other is, in the end, only a children's book.
Throw in some of the plagiarism charges against Rowling and Lewis gets my $ any day.

Scabrous Birdseed
11-07-2003, 21:12:32
Yeah but then Lewis is a patronising bastard with no connection with or respect for children. I hated his work when I was like 12 'cause it was so transparent while at the same time containing loads of little trite preachy asides that I totally vomited over (because you understand, little ones, they seemed quite patronising to a big boy like me, and isn't that the way?).

Now Lewis Carroll, on the other hand, is a good children's writer with a multidimensional agenda.

BigGameHunter
11-07-2003, 21:23:05
Sigh...methinks you don't know jack shit about CS Lewis and methinks also that your empathy for a pedaphile is somewhat disturbingly predictable.
;)

Darkstar
13-07-2003, 09:03:42
BGH, you are so full of it. :D

Seriously, Potter is a good, light read. Basic modern fantasy. Basic "Kids Mainstream".

However, it isn't single layered. It does start off rather light overall. Only a few multi-book spanning items and themes first slightly hinted at. However, as the series goes on, JK has actually changed her target for an older audience. I suppose that's her original audience, but as she has advanced a bit. There's several themes she's constantly banging on, and now the multi-book plots and greater themes are growing.

But then, if you want to really ANALYZE most light books, you can dig out all sorts of non-sense that they love in English Lit classes. ;)

Summary: HP starts very light, buts develops more levels as it goes along.

Not that I'm claiming it's the greatest literature in the world. But its not the mainstream plastic garbage of the literary world either. It's alright for something aimed at 'young adult' (I'd guess at early teen for the latest, preteen for the first book.)

Scabrous Birdseed
13-07-2003, 09:19:36
BGH: All I know is I hated his books as a kid. Surely that's the only measure of a good childrens' writer?

BigGameHunter
13-07-2003, 22:22:49
No, but probably a good measure of a disturbed child.

King_Ghidra
14-07-2003, 08:09:37
BGH you may see the cs lewis' stuff as a metaphorical examination of the creator, i see the bible rewritten as an anthropomorphic children's story

you see 100000 words on the iconography of aslan, i see jesus in a lion costume

i certainly would agree that harry potter is much more light philosophically speaking than cs lews' work, but at least harry potter isn't bogged down by the heavy christian influences

i already compared harry potter to a hit from a crack pipe, cs lewis' works are more like the heavy smell of incense

oh and to clear up any misapprenhensions you may have after reading this, i'm not saying the potter books are 'better' but just that you needn't rubbish them (especially as as far as i can see you still haven't really read them)

BigGameHunter
14-07-2003, 20:27:53
Yeah, you're right...I was just taking the piss.
:)
But my revulsion over fads is still valid to me...just creeps me out for some reason.

Darkstar
14-07-2003, 20:49:39
BGH, don't worry about the fad. Just listen to what your buds say about it, and factor in how their taste in books match up to yours.

BigGameHunter
14-07-2003, 23:05:16
Well, my tastes tend to run to the more grown-up novels. I am sure that my son and I will read this series in a few years. He can count to 10 and knows his A B C's already, so maybe War and Peace instead.
Of course that's a totally crap novel...
;)

RedFred
21-07-2003, 03:12:10
BGH, I can understand your aversion to jumping on the bandwagon. But this is a case when there is some validity to the hype. After reading the first one to see what all the fuss was over I was hooked. It might not be critically aclaimed highbrow literature, but the series has slowly become more than a guilty pleasure.

The last book, all 766 pages of it, seems to be aimed more at the teen level, with a nod to the many adult readers, than to kids.

The plots are simple, but the characters which started simply have become much more complex and realistic. Her imagination is excellent. Better still, she is becoming more aware that having HP always win reduces plot tension. He is less triumphant, and in many respects much more a failure in this book than in any other.

Rowling even manages to take some shots at her US handlers that insisted on 'The Sorcerer's Stone' instead of 'The Philosopher's Stone' for the US market, because US kids would have trouble with such a big word. She has a slightly dopey character repeatedly pronounce 'philosopher' wrong. :)

MDA
21-07-2003, 16:36:24
I didn't think the Narnia books were subtle at all, and I wasn't that old when I read them.

Still enjoyed them, though.

I could probably burn my way through all 700 pages of the last Potter book faster than I'd finish any one of the Narnia series, though. Doesn't mean its a better book, just an easier read.

Noisy
21-07-2003, 21:45:31
They all pall into insignificance when measured against Richmal Compton's 'William' books.

fp
21-07-2003, 22:18:15
And if I any one disagrees I'll scream and scream and scream until I'm sick ... I can you know.

Darkstar
22-07-2003, 04:39:26
Quick! Someone disagree!

RedFred
22-07-2003, 05:11:37
I disagree about the fp and gp leading to ep. Given that this is an HP thread I expect an HP before too long.

Sir Penguin
22-07-2003, 05:58:37
You get 1 HP for every 8 hours of rest.

SP

Darkstar
22-07-2003, 06:21:31
So, a critically wounded non-classed human dropped to 0 HP will be fully healed in 3 days?

Sir Penguin
22-07-2003, 06:39:05
If they have a total of 9 HP and rest uninterrupted for the full 3 days, yes. Although I think that if they're at 0 HP then they can roll a Fortitude check to gain 1 HP (ie, consciousness) every turn until they're successful.

SP

Darkstar
22-07-2003, 06:50:55
Oh. Sorry. Non-classed would have a max of 3 hp. So then in one day?

Sir Penguin
22-07-2003, 06:59:06
Does the information given suggest that that is the case?

SP

Darkstar
22-07-2003, 07:21:00
There are different sorts of riders in the old rules I know. I wondered if they had cleaned those out.

RedFred
22-07-2003, 07:44:50
Cool. G'night. I am off to get my 1 HP.

TCO
24-07-2003, 01:24:11
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
You can't possibly want to put the writings of an acclaimed Christian surrealist up against a tinhorn like Rowling can you?
I have read portions of Mr. Potter's tale and it is good entertainment, but it conveys only one dimension of meaning, unlike the writing of C.S. Lewis, who had whole books that on the surface were also "good entertainment" but contained within them a subtle morality play. The iconography of Aslan alone could fuel a 100,000 word thesis, whereas Rowling's portrayal of "good vs. evil" seems trite by comparison.
"They say Aslan's on the move," whispered the Beaver. "and now a very curious thing happened. None of the children knew who Aslan was any more than you do; but the moment the Beaver had spoken these words everyone felt quite different, as if it had enormous meaning that you remember all your life. Perhaps it has sometimes happened to you in a dream that someone says something which you don't understand but in the dream it feels as if it had some enormous meaning & either a terrifying one which turns the whole dream into a nightmare or else a lovely meaning too lovely to put into words, which makes the dream so beautiful that you remember it all your life and are always wishing you could get into that dream again. It was like that now. At the name of Aslan each one of the children felt something jump in his inside.

Finally Susan asked, "Who is Aslan?" The Beaver replied, "Aslan? He's the king. He's the Lord of the whole wood, the son of the great Emperor-Beyond-the-Sea, the great Lion."
***

Obviously it is a metaphoric examination of the Creator, and goes much deeper into realms of human experience, mysticism and spirituality than Rowling's works do. She tells a good tale about wizards and monsters and barf flavored candy and whatnot, but there is only a summary mystery touching on universal themes. It is, admittedly, like comparing apples and oranges, but you threw the gauntlet back at me, so some justification on my part is required.
For me, on the sole basis that Lewis' work is uni-dimensional vs. the relatively one dimensional Potter series, I would forsake the latter for the former.
I'm not saying I don't read non-layered writing, but one is a universal tale of sin, search and retribution portrayed on a sweeping backdrop of worlds in upheaval in the oldest struggle known to humankind, while the other is, in the end, only a children's book.
Throw in some of the plagiarism charges against Rowling and Lewis gets my $ any day.

Lewis rawks. No doubt. But Rawlings is fun. SHe tapped a vien. Read it.