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Scabrous Birdseed
13-05-2003, 21:35:46
Now that we've got the routine in maybe we can speed up the collection/participation routine? I doesn't have to take months like last time or half a year like the time before.

Main problem is, as usual, finding a volounteer compiler. Also any new rules or ideas need to be hammered out. How's about we leave the thread running for a week or two then start signing up participants/volounteers?

Provost Harrison
13-05-2003, 21:48:56
I'm in...

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 08:30:15
I would like to be part of it. If people think we should freshen up the submitters etc or if there are too many people I'd like to at least get a copy of the CD. I could still put together articles and things.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 08:45:58
From the other thread:

Only problem with a triple album is the cost/time in CDs for the compiler. I don't mind distributing the Reading CDs this time (as long as they aren't bloody 80 min CDs again). Plus we'd be on a 9 article rotation.

I really like the idea of using mp3s (or whatever), I know Laz says he hasn't got a mp3 player but he has a computer so he could get one... obviously be nicer to have them on CD.

Scabrous Birdseed
14-05-2003, 11:37:29
What's wrong with 80-minute CDs? Everyone uses 80-minute CDs! Surely.

I truly and utterly hate MP3s in every form. The quality is abysmal.

Scabrous Birdseed
14-05-2003, 11:39:12
A stach of 50 80-minute CDs is 17 or thereabouts. 15 participants * 3 CDs = 45 CDs, ie. approx. 15. That's discounting the Reading and York/Hull distribution networks.

protein
14-05-2003, 11:47:36
I can't say I notice any difference in quality compared to a cd. Unless of course you are listening to it through a computer speaker or at low bitrate. I can't tell the difference between the tracks that were mp3 and the ones that were wavs on the compilation and I consider myself a bit of an expert on sound quality. At least it isn't vinyl.

Scabrous Birdseed
14-05-2003, 12:14:39
Originally posted by protein
low bitrate

Well, I'm assuming you'll want them all compressed indefinately to fit your swanky MP3-player-monsters.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 13:41:29
If the mp3 quality is so terrible I'm surprised no-one commented on the tracks on LWP4 that I converted to CD audio tracks from the mp3s I received them as.

Which ones were they out of interest Scabby, as the difference is so obvious?

Guy
14-05-2003, 14:28:33
I would like in again for the next round as well, though I would also trade submitter for reviewer status if there are too many participants like Funko said.

mp3's would be absolutely fine by me. If encoded correctly, there really is no discernable difference in quality. Would save the compiler some dough, too.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 14:36:26
I have been reviewing all mine from mp3 anyway. I haven't got the CDs anymore.

BigGameHunter
14-05-2003, 14:41:02
Well, I'd certainly like to contribute.
Pardon my ignorance, but could an mp3 (or wav or whatever) be linked in this forum? What I'm thinking is that if a format change was ok (i.e: eliminating the guessing part) then it would be easy for someone involved to submit a song to the forum and spend a day or two of review and discussion?
I don't know...I imagine time is a bit of an issue once you're talking three CD's, and my computer isn't exactly Deep Thought or anything, so it would take me a couple of days easily to burn 45 discs, plus regional constraints would make it hard for me to foot the bill for sending them all out.
Hmmmm....

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 14:43:09
It is possible but the site would be totally fucked legally for the copyright thing.

I think the time it would take to burn the disks is a lot more of an issue than the cost or whatever.

BigGameHunter
14-05-2003, 14:43:31
Actually, you could still leave the guessing part in, as one neutral party could be elected to post the mp3 in a dedicated thread. Plus, I'd have no issues with "following along" as the songs were posted and creating LWP5 discs as they were "constructed".
I also imagine you could post blocks of songs (1-9, etc) at a time? Just trying to think of ways to eliminate one person getting stuck with time and expense hassles?

BigGameHunter
14-05-2003, 14:45:13
Originally posted by Funkodrom
It is possible but the site would be totally fucked legally for the copyright thing.

Ah! Hadn't considered that...hmmm....crap. There's got to be a way around this.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 14:46:00
The other problem is a lot of potential contributors are on modems. Downloading all the tracks would take them weeks.

BigGameHunter
14-05-2003, 14:49:57
Yeah...I'm one of them.
Well, as most of the contributers are in the UK or nearby, I don't see it being a problem as long as everybody chips in. I'm more than willing to contribute to some kind of materials fund. And once the "master disc" is made, I'm sure two or three people who live near each other could easily get the discs burned between them. I'd be happy to re-imburse the sender of my disc(s) with a return compilation or cash--either way.
No foot rubs, though.

The Shaker
14-05-2003, 14:50:52
is PH on a modem?

BigGameHunter
14-05-2003, 14:51:38
No, he's on acid.

BigGameHunter
14-05-2003, 14:52:08
God...what a frightening scene that would be.

Guy
14-05-2003, 15:01:11
I'll second what BGH said, more than happy to try to reimburse the compiler.

Maybe what we need to do is reduce the number of submitters and raise the number of reviewers? Maybe have a pool of folks with four or five submitters, make up a single CD worth of songs and the rest review it, then rotate duties for the next set. Would reduce costs, give everyone more time to work with, etc.

Just a thought.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 15:03:31
I'd rather have more submitters with each submitter getting to put fewer tracks on.

Debaser
14-05-2003, 15:05:39
I think taking it to a three CD thing would be a bad idea. It would just be more of the same, but with even less quality control.

I have an idea. The "Listien Without Prejudice" name is stolen from a George Michael album right? His best of album was a double CD, with one disc titled Songs for the Head, and the other titled Songs for the Feet. Why don't we rip this idea off wholesale as well. Everyone submits 2 songs they really love (no time limits, but on the understanding that no jokers pick really long songs just for the hell of it). The first song would go on CD 1 and would be a song that you really love for emotional/personal/whatever reasons, the second song would go on CD 2 and be a song that makes you smile/you just can't help tapping your foot to/etc.

The review process would be a simple, no fucking around, 2 part affair. Guesses optional.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 15:07:01
Sounds good to me.

*End Is Forever*
14-05-2003, 15:09:21
Well I am in, whatever the format... :smoke:

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 15:10:21
There are more identical emo bands we haven't heard yet?

Guy
14-05-2003, 15:11:16
How about one CD with mp3s to reduce costs without sacrificing quantity? You could probably do that and even increase the submitters without going over a single CD's worth of music.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 15:20:02
I agree with that...

Presumeably Laz has some kind of music software on his PC in order for him to make his CDs of submissions in the first place so he can convert the mp3s onto a normal audio CD if he needs to.

Eklektikos
14-05-2003, 15:20:47
I'd also like to take part, if that's ok :cute:

BigGameHunter
14-05-2003, 15:21:48
Ah, the brain trust is really cooking now.
Think outside the box, boys...think outside the box.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 15:22:27
Originally posted by Eklektikos
I'd also like to take part, if that's ok :cute:

Cool!

BigGameHunter
14-05-2003, 15:23:15
I think any new submitters have to go through the reviewer stage first, to prove their committment.
We're big on initiation rites here in the US.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 15:24:28
Personally I'd be more interested in hearing music from new submitters than from older submitters because it'd be new music collections to sample from which is why I'm happy to just review if there are too many submitters.

BigGameHunter
14-05-2003, 15:28:34
Well, I'm just really excited about the opportunity to hear some things I have either overlooked or didn't have access to. While I don't really click with music sung in foreign languages (and that goes for Spanish too, which I can speak a bit) there are a lot of UK bands I've never had the chance to hear. LWP seems like a great way to amend that, in both directions.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 15:31:39
I'd like to get more North Americans and Continental Europeans involved for that reason.

King_Ghidra
14-05-2003, 15:33:13
aren't half the UK submitters submitting n american music anyway :rolleyes:

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 15:41:33
That's a totally unfair use of the rolleyes. We're only submitting the American music that makes it over here. There's loads we don't get, and of course there's loads of UK music that doesn't go the other way.

King_Ghidra
14-05-2003, 15:48:00
:lol: sorry, didn't mean to hurt your feelings :D

personally i'd like to se more hip-hop, techno, drum 'n' bass, but unfortunately the average track in these genres takes twice as long as the two minute guitar wonders

this is why i would like to heartily cast my vote for mp3's because as long as we have the anoying time restraint we will always be pandering to white guitar culture and producing more identikit LWP's

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 15:57:29
Yes, I don't like the way the current format is biased towards short songs either.

Debaser
14-05-2003, 16:00:12
That's why my idea would work. If you only get to put one song on each CD you wouldn't waste it on some meaningless 30 second pile of shit. Especially as there is no time limit.

King_Ghidra
14-05-2003, 16:07:14
The idea of submitting only two songs is a turn-off for me. If we're supposed to be turning people on to dfferent music we need lots of songs. I can't contain my boundless enthusiasm for music in just two tracks, it's not right.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 16:09:41
That's not the aim. (edit. I mean you don't have to put all your enthusiasm for music in tracks)

Anyway this isn't the only compilation, just the next one.

And it means only 2 PH tracks. ;)

Guy
14-05-2003, 16:11:30
I agree with that. I was struggling to fit anything meaningful into the time allotted on the one I participated in.

More is better.

Debaser
14-05-2003, 16:11:59
But the way I see it is if you give someone 15 minutes to fill they'll compromise on quality for the sake of quantity (as you said previously). If you tell somebody to pick two great songs regardless of length then there is no compromise, and in theory the songs should be better (and I'd rather hear one great track than 6 30second pieces of shit).

I think the format at the moment is becoming tired and needs to be shaken up pretty comprehensively.

Guy
14-05-2003, 16:12:22
Damn X-post.

I agree with K_G.

Guy
14-05-2003, 16:14:58
I agree with Debaser, too, but don't see why it should be limited to only two songs. Use mp3s to open up disk space and give everyone a little more to work with.

Debaser
14-05-2003, 16:16:45
But people like to listen to music on CD players rather than computers. Why waste a great track on tiny trebley speakers?

Guy
14-05-2003, 16:19:17
Because it is very possible with free software to decode an mp3 back into a wav file if that's what you want without discernable losses.

Plus, if you really like something from here you're supposed to be going out and buying it anyway to support the band/find out more of what they do.

Guy
14-05-2003, 16:23:34
That didn't come out quite right. What I mean is, like Funko and K_G are saying, remove as many restrictions as possible from the compilation so as to open it up to as much participation as possible, and then you're free (and able) to do what you want with the files once you have them.

Eklektikos
14-05-2003, 16:24:36
The problem with using mp3 format as opposed to audio CD is that it places definite limits on where and when people can listen to the material. I, for example, do most of my serious music listening on a portable CD player on my way to and from work and do not often have the opportunity to concentrate on what I'm listening to whilst I have a PC available.

Debaser
14-05-2003, 16:30:02
True, but when it gets to a point where you have to start messing around decoding files off some random CD-R I think you lose the idea of it being a compilation CD, and I think that is important.

Like Mike said "this isn't the only compilation, just the next one", and if we do the reviews in just two parts (CD1 & CD2 obviously) then we can be onto the next thing in a month or so. The point isn't to try and show how varied your record collection is, or to out-cool people with crazy choices (which I may have been guilty of before, I admit), it's to show two songs that mean something to you.

Guy
14-05-2003, 16:32:26
If you have a CD burner (which, presumably, you do have in order to participate in the first place), CDEX is a free, downloadable program that can decode mp3's very handily into wav files which can be burned onto CD and listened to on most players.

If that's too much of a pain for most, then I will acquiesce, but I figured the potential for including more submitters without someone having to burn 2 or 3 CDs for every reviewer (and pay for postage to get it to them) was worth a little more effort on the parts of the receipients.

Just my two cents.

Guy
14-05-2003, 16:34:34
Cross posted again.

Like I said, if that's not the way people want to go, that's fine with me, I will go with the majority. Just throwing out ideas.

Doing the review process faster would be a nice alternative that I could get behind.

Lazarus and the Gimp
14-05-2003, 16:34:38
Use MP3's and each session will turn into a marathon. We'll end up with about 150 tracks per CD, review fatigue will set in and the reviews will be piss-poor. It'll end up going on for years.

Debaser's idea of a two-song limit is a better idea. Seeing as we had nearly 50 tracks on LWP4 I think we could easily accommodate 15 submitters.

My own suggestion would be to rotate/cull submitters. Give automatic slots to those who organised it/published it and anyone who kept up reviewing even though they didsn't submit (as BGH did). Any remaining slots can be fought over, with the option of an automatic slot next time.

Mr. Bas
14-05-2003, 16:34:55
Count me in again as well.

I'd also prefer to have normal audio cd's so I can listen to it on an ordinary cd player as well. If there's a strong consensus in favour of mp3's though I won't object. The 2 song idea is not really something I like, it's just not enough. I agree though that the current forum is too biased in favour of short songs, but I don't have any ideas (other than the mp3 one) on how to remedy that.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 16:38:06
2 songs is not enough for what?

Guy
14-05-2003, 16:41:07
Fair enough, and some good points.

I will throw my vote behind the 2 song limit with faster turnarounds and rotating subitters, then.

Keeping it moving and letting new people take their crack makes good sense.

protein
14-05-2003, 16:56:55
Can we put a limit on the amount of shit skate punk songs? There would be loads of room for interesting music then.

Immortal Wombat
14-05-2003, 16:57:42
Fair enough, and some good points.

I will throw my vote behind the 2 song limit with faster turnarounds and rotating subitters, then.

Keeping it moving and letting new people take their crack makes good sense.


Sounds good to me.

King_Ghidra@home
14-05-2003, 17:11:15
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Use MP3's and each session will turn into a marathon. We'll end up with about 150 tracks per CD, review fatigue will set in and the reviews will be piss-poor.

Seriously, how good are the reviews now? i think review fatigue sets in when people have to listen to stuff they don't like and stuff they can't be bothered to waste their time on. Perhaps people should only have to review the tracks they care about, whether that be because they loved it or hated it.

Imagine if there were 150 tracks, would be quite fun going through and picking out the ones you like.

You yourself said your only aims from LWP were to hear new music and get music you like to other people. Well surely that would best be accomplished by having lots of tracks on the cd's?

Let's face it, we already know most people taking part do listen with prejudice, at least if there are 100 tracks people can just filter out the stuff they don't like and still have plenty left to enjoy.

I don't really give a shit if someone hates my tracks, but i definitely am interested to hear from people who like them and want to know more.

protein
14-05-2003, 17:12:30
when we gonna torch the restaurant ghidra?

King_Ghidra@home
14-05-2003, 17:14:32
:beer:

Mr. Bas
14-05-2003, 17:30:16
Not enough in that you can only present two bands you like then, instead of the (about) 4 of lwp4. Still, it does allow you to pick longer songs without worrying about your time quotum.

Lazarus and the Gimp
14-05-2003, 17:40:47
Originally posted by King_Ghidra@home

You yourself said your only aims from LWP were to hear new music and get music you like to other people. Well surely that would best be accomplished by having lots of tracks on the cd's?


That's my only two aims in submitting tracks. Not the review process. I want to hear who likes them, and why, so I can recommend other stuff.

If I hear something I like, I want to read what the history of it is, background to the album, standout tracks from other work, spin-off projects, cultural relevance and amusing anecdotes about butter. I'm usually disappointed, but I try to make the effort myself. Get track overkill and I think the process will suffer.

Lazarus and the Gimp
14-05-2003, 17:42:55
I've got a wife, a kid, a job and a book to write. Getting 40-odd songs in one go I can handle. Getting 150 would be overkill.

*End Is Forever*
14-05-2003, 17:56:15
I like the idea of two songs only, though I'd be opposed any further "theme" (don't like the "songs from the head, songs from the feet" idea much).

Debaser
14-05-2003, 18:02:13
Fair enough, I don't really like it either. I was just trying to think of something to spice it up a little. At the moment it seems to have become rather directionless.

BigGameHunter
14-05-2003, 19:58:22
Why not continue with the LWP format as is, two songs apiece and keep it rapid enough (and with some people rotating in and out of submission status) that it can continue? An adendum to this would be a moritorium on mainstream (i.e game soundtracks and frat party tunes) music found readily.

In addition, a side project entitled "Mammoth Music Compilation" or some such can be launched to include the mp3 format, with participation based on interest.

Scabrous Birdseed
14-05-2003, 20:42:18
I think it's possible to make a set of rules such that protein doesn't get many Skate-Punk tracks, Shakey gets spice and listenable, coherent compilations, Debaser gets songs in several categories and we drastically reduce the number of participants. It totally runs against the original idea of the project, though.

What I'd propose is that, instead of doing it open like we've done until now, we drastically limit the kind of stuff that's allowed to go on each CD in order to make it more tightly themed. I mean the kind of limit that Funko imposed on himself before this round, perhaps a tad tighter even, declaring the CD one which will only appeal to fans of a certain category of music. Perhaps, one time, we do only (loosely-defined) Punk- that time protein can freely chose not to participate, but *End is Forever* can have a thoroughly listenable CD he can enjoy. Another time we might do "music not from the US or the UK", and those whose record collections are limited to those areas are out. It'd keep things tighter, leaner, allow those who are able and willing to participate to chip in with anything from one song to 20 minutes of material depending on what they believe they can contribute, and everyone is happy.

It's not very eclectic, but then neighter was LWP3.

protein
14-05-2003, 21:02:25
Your avatar is really getting to me. I can hear it going "unggghh unggghh unggghh unggghh unggghh"

Funkodrom
15-05-2003, 08:33:49
Scabby, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose? Then it's not people finding out cool music they haven't heard before but people making compilation CDs for their friends who like the same music they do.

Funkodrom
15-05-2003, 08:34:50
PH's contributions (and Bas's punk ones) have been valuable to me in some ways because I've heard songs by bands I always hear about in reviews and things but have never actually heard. Like Minor Threat for instance.

Sean
15-05-2003, 13:13:05
Originally posted by King_Ghidra@home
Seriously, how good are the reviews now? i think review fatigue sets in when people have to listen to stuff they don't like and stuff they can't be bothered to waste their time on. Perhaps people should only have to review the tracks they care about, whether that be because they loved it or hated it.
I dunno. I think that average review isn’t terribly good, but the collection of reviews for each track is entertaining. We need a better way of representing this, though.

Guy
15-05-2003, 16:22:01
I would oppose Scabby's idea, too.

In my mind, the goal should be to produce a sampler rather than a theme. Otherwise I won't participate in the sessions with themes I am prejudiced against, and thus won't hear anything new.

That said, there's nothing wrong with making some rules. Like, say, no one can submit more than one song in a given genre, or something.

Sean
15-05-2003, 16:25:12
I think two tracks each is a good idea, with no time limit, but then I would.

Scabrous Birdseed
15-05-2003, 16:26:45
Two tracks each with no time limit would lead to people putting on as long tracks as possible instead of as short tracks as possible, I think. :) Nevertheless, it's worth trying...

Funkodrom
15-05-2003, 16:28:57
That is a danger. I don't want to have to listen to a load of 15 minute tracks.

What about 2 tracks each, no time limit but don't be a dick.

Sean
15-05-2003, 16:30:22
That’ll never work.

Scabrous Birdseed
15-05-2003, 16:31:01
Actually, to be honest I was planning to put on only two tracks on LWP5 anyway. I'd be really happy with Two Tracks, Don't Be a Dick as the LWP5 rule.

Funkodrom
15-05-2003, 16:32:52
I still like the feet and heart idea as well.

Scabrous Birdseed
15-05-2003, 16:36:48
I'm up for that one as well, considering the two trakcs I had in mind... ;)

Right, there's three of us sold on the feet and heart idea, what's there to lose? I say we go for it!

Provost Harrison
15-05-2003, 20:29:34
I am only on a modem so I don't have the bandwidth to deal with MP3s...so an audio CD is preferable for me.

And if I am only allocated 2 songs I will have to make them especialy terrible for you :D

Funkodrom
16-05-2003, 08:26:28
Then what's the point of submitting them?