PDA

View Full Version : Windows Longhorn's 3D Interface


Asher
11-05-2003, 05:57:02
A ton more information is out on it now thanks to WinHEC:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1072787,00.asp

There will basically be 3 settings:
Windows 2000 compatibility mode (standard, 2D GDI)
Tier 1: DirectX 7 minimum, hardware accelerated but Windows XP-style effects
Tier 2: DirectX 9 minimum (AGP 8x minimum, 64MB video RAM min, 128MB recommended)

Tier 2 looks frickin' awesome. You can do everything with it.

They've got some samples of what can be done with it on this pre-Alpha milestone.

3 short videos from ExtremeTech: ftp://ftp.extremetech.com/pub/extremetech/news/winhec/WaveWindows.rm
ftp://ftp.extremetech.com/pub/extremetech/news/winhec/StarWars.rm
ftp://ftp.extremetech.com/pub/extremetech/news/winhec/Dizzy.rm

Longhorn will also have the new Database-based filesystem, a "My Games" subsystem to simplify game installs/reinstalls/uninstalls, the new SideBar, far faster installs (~20 mins), etc.

Massive preview is here of build 4008: http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_4015.asp

Asher
11-05-2003, 06:13:30
By build 4008, I mean 4015.

Deacon
13-05-2003, 06:47:41
I was expecting something sooner than late 2004, but it should be worth the wait. By that time AGP 8X and 128MB video will be mainstream. It sounds like the system of libraries and pivots will be based on the features of WinFS.

Darkstar
13-05-2003, 22:15:49
Humm... but how exactly is the WinFS going to work? Its just SQL Server, eating your whole NTFS, isn't it? So it's a DB on top of your FileIO, isn't it?

Scabrous Birdseed
13-05-2003, 23:33:56
So why isn't the entire architecture XML-based?

Asher
14-05-2003, 00:17:28
Is that some attempt at a joke?

Scabrous Birdseed
14-05-2003, 00:36:59
Not at all! I hear XML is superseding relational databases as the structural basis for future utilities, if MS is as up-to-date as they claim in the service architecture business why isn't Longhorn XML-driven?

Asher
14-05-2003, 01:59:19
Could the Swedes vacate the tech forum please.

Deacon
14-05-2003, 02:18:01
I don't see much advantage to dumping binary data into the middle of an XML file. Just because it's possible doesn't mean we should do it. :)

Asher
14-05-2003, 05:01:24
Darkstar: http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/longhorn_preview_2003.asp

NTFS will be the only supported file system in Longhorn, from a setup and deployment standpoint, though the OS will, of course, continue to support legacy file systems like FAT and FAT32 for dual-boot and upgrade purposes. The oft-misunderstood Windows Future Storage (WinFS), which will include technology from the "Yukon" release of SQL Server, is not a file system, Mark Myers told me. Instead, WinFS is a service that runs on top of--and requires--NTFS. "WinFS sits on top of NTFS," he said. "It sits on top of the file system. NTFS will be a requirement."

Interestingly, when WinFS is enabled, file letters are hidden from the end user, though they're still lurking there under the covers for compatibility with legacy applications. This reminds of when Microsoft added long file name (LFN) support in Windows 95, but kept using short (8.3) file names under the covers so 16-bit applications would still work. Expect this to be the first step toward the wholesale elimination of drive letters in a future Windows version.

Sir Penguin
14-05-2003, 07:20:35
"Windows Future Storage"? Couldn't they have found a better expansion for WinFS? That one's a bit of a stretch.

SP

Deacon
14-05-2003, 07:45:49
C:\ONGRTLNS.W95. :)

But seriously, I don't think MS hates UNIX as much as people say they do.

Bob
14-05-2003, 08:02:27
Originally posted by Deacon
I don't see much advantage to dumping binary data into the middle of an XML file. Just because it's possible doesn't mean we should do it. :) What's the advantage of a 3D interface?

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 09:01:04
To make it look good in films. See Jurassic Park.

Bob
14-05-2003, 11:05:59
Ah. like speech control

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 11:07:58
Yes.

Bob
14-05-2003, 11:16:26
I'm going to activate my IE speech input system now:

Woom. Ah damned. No. Back space. Shit. Stop What. As scape. No. Loodeleioloo loodeleioloo damped phone What. Who. No that's not his number it's my numb bar. Arsehole. So ...

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 13:00:05
It'll be like this:

Oooh this 3d interface looks really cool.

Where's all my stuff?

How do I change this back to normal mode?

Bob
14-05-2003, 13:16:26
Like the Luna thingy

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 13:27:48
First thing I did when I got XP at work was erradicate that unbelievably offensive green and blue colour scheme and put it back to normal.

Bob
14-05-2003, 13:41:49
I turn off all gimmicks like the shadow of the mouse pointer or, worst of all, the animated menus.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 13:48:53
Oh yeah, I turned all that annoying shit off as well. I just want it to do stuff like menus and mouse moving as fast as possible, what it looks like is very secondary.

Bob
14-05-2003, 13:55:29
I noticed that animated menus were slowing me down, just the little delay was enough to irritate me. And the mouse pointer was irritating when editing pictures. It's all useless eye candy.

The very big advencment of XP is that it runs very stable (compared to 98) and you can go back to the last checkpoint. Saved me from a complete new installation when I installed new drivers etc.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 14:00:03
Yeah, there are a lot of good things but the UI is much worse with the default settings. The animated menus were so slow.

I still don't really like the start menu because it's too slow I just put all my most common shortcuts on the bar at the bottom.

Bob
14-05-2003, 14:05:28
Yeah. Another good thing is that you can drag and drop from the stat menu. But I guess there was 98 patch so you could do that with 98 too. I got some kind of control center for Win XP, where you can change a lot of XP options and settings. It's unspectacular and looks dull, but it's a lot more faster and logical than XP pluy you can change a lot more stuff (without editing the registry). Also does some analysing and correting of parameters

Asher
14-05-2003, 14:12:51
From the performance statistics they've shown so far, the 3D UI in Longhorn is actually faster and uses less RAM than the old 2D-style GDI that all the other Windows use.

The reason is the entire GUI is offloaded onto the idle GPU, and uses the GPU's RAM rather than system RAM, and GPU's clockcycles to do effects rather than CPU.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 14:13:42
You could do the drag onto the toolbar from start menu in Windows ME for certain.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 14:15:43
Originally posted by Asher
From the performance statistics they've shown so far, the 3D UI in Longhorn is actually faster and uses less RAM than the old 2D-style GDI that all the other Windows use.

The reason is the entire GUI is offloaded onto the idle GPU, and uses the GPU's RAM rather than system RAM, and GPU's clockcycles to do effects rather than CPU.

What's a GPU?

We're talking about mainly the actual slowing down because of the time the animations took to run not the machine speed.

Asher
14-05-2003, 14:18:03
GPU = Graphics Processing Unit

the graphics chip on the graphics card (or integrated into the motherboard).

And I guess I misunderstood you about the speed thing, most people complain that XP's GUI is sluggish on old computers.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 14:21:02
Ah. Ok.

I've never tried XP on a slow computer. You probably turned them off as well but the default on install was for these animated menus that took a while to draw everytime you went to select a menu option. Looked quite nice (a bit tacky) but really slowed you down if you were trying to operate at normal speeds.

Bob
14-05-2003, 14:21:29
I guess it's good for all kiddies, so they can tell dad why the need a 500 EUR graphics accelerator

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 14:24:36
None of those movies download for me so I can't actually watch them anyway.

Bob
14-05-2003, 14:25:24
You could watch them in 3d using Longhorn!!

Bob
14-05-2003, 14:27:41
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Ah. Ok.

I've never tried XP on a slow computer. I did on my old 700 MHz and it was OK - once I turned off all gimmicks. It's OK, but it takes far longer to start than on my new machine

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 14:27:55
I don't know where my 3D glasses are.

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 14:29:29
It's really fast to start. Between 2000 and XP they changed it so the profile synchronisation with the domain controller happens when you log out instead of when you log in. This means it boots up a lot faster, but takes ages to shut down.

zmama
14-05-2003, 14:29:30
Is it going to come with those dorky 3d glasses?

Funkodrom
14-05-2003, 14:32:34
It'd have to... or you'd need a 3D projector or something.

Bob
14-05-2003, 14:39:57
We still got NT at work

Darkstar
15-05-2003, 21:05:29
Scabby, last I read, MS is supporting XML Data/File Structure. I'm still digging through all the material currently, as I am in the process of moving and looking over the effects of moving to their 2003 generation of OS, Tools, etc.

Asher, Thanks!

You guys should be aware that there are DISPLAY makers that are making 3D displays. No need for glasses. Too layers of LCD. Of course, your head has to be in about the right focal point for you to get its proper effects, but hey, them's the breaks. (Think 'The Last Star Fighter' gunner display, only with flat screen displays)

URL: http://news.com.com/2100-1040-978499.html