PDA

View Full Version : Listen Without Predjudice 4 - Part 4


Scabrous Birdseed
24-04-2003, 19:43:01
http://www.counterglow.com/article.php?id=lwp4_4

Enjoy!

Sean
24-04-2003, 19:44:50
No link on the front page?

And whoops, noticed a formatting error.

Scabrous Birdseed
24-04-2003, 19:46:21
You have to make the thread before you publish it. Dunno why.

Sean
24-04-2003, 19:48:34
Fixed.

*End Is Forever*
24-04-2003, 19:52:01
For the second successive section I guessed Laz twice in a vain attempt to get it right, and for the second successive section I failed utterly pathetically. Rock. :beer:

*End Is Forever*
24-04-2003, 19:55:56
Comment on track 8 by Funkodrom
I wonder if EiF will say “If I wanted to listen to stuff like this I’d go to the temple”.

Actually it sounds rather like what they play as background music in the various curryhouses in York. Hence "Noor That's What I Call Music", a tribute to the late and unlamented Noor Jahan International Curryhouse on Fishergate.

Scabrous Birdseed
24-04-2003, 20:03:35
Reggae isn't world music.

*End Is Forever*
24-04-2003, 20:05:56
I'd have thought you'd despise "world music" as an appalling racist Western-centric term anyway Johan?

It is rather an absurd name anyway. Surely all music is world music? Unless there's a recording studio on the moon that one of the major labels is keeping hidden away...

Scabrous Birdseed
24-04-2003, 20:11:03
David Byrne says it much better than I ever could (while also mentioning one of the other bands on this compilation in the passing):

http://www.davidbyrne.com/cmp/worldmusic.html

*End Is Forever*
24-04-2003, 20:16:38
Surely by his definition reggae is world music...?

Scabrous Birdseed
24-04-2003, 20:21:48
By his definition nothing is world music. :)

By my defintion it's the stuff the western people who like world music call world music, ie. the safe, "authentic" stuff. Reggae, which has since the very beginning (and continually) been influenced by whatever the prevailing American sound happens to be doesn't qualify.

BigGameHunter
24-04-2003, 20:51:09
Christ...I don't think I guessed one right this time....argh. I suppose I'm going to have to move to Europe and be your newf if I'm going to improve on my dismal record.

Surprised I hadn't heard of The Decmeberists...I'll have to look into that. Also still surprised how much most of you hate what I enjoy and are swept away on rapturous clouds of fanatic love for things I think are being painfully and obviously "clever".

Pretty good section, that.

Debaser
24-04-2003, 21:01:14
"World music" isn't a genre, its a section in music shops for all the stuff that sounds a bit different and foreign to a western ear.

Good article again. Well done to all the people who guessed my track......hang on, none of you did. Mwahaha!

Scabrous Birdseed
24-04-2003, 21:06:54
You would have been my second guess.

Lazarus and the Gimp
24-04-2003, 21:14:34
Hooray! I guessed wrong on every one! Again!

Next week I'll guess "Asher" for every track. It'll improve my odds of getting one right.

Debaser
24-04-2003, 21:15:05
Aww, I'm touched.


Edit: Damn you Laz, this reply was not intended for you!

Scabrous Birdseed
24-04-2003, 21:19:28
So where the fuck am I going to get hold of a copy of Colossal Youth? I don't want to import a european CD from the US, seems pointless.

Lazarus and the Gimp
24-04-2003, 21:23:34
I got mine through Rough Trade's on-line shop.

Sean
24-04-2003, 21:27:06
Which currently just has an error message. Woo.

Scabrous Birdseed
24-04-2003, 21:28:36
Woo.

Debaser
24-04-2003, 21:31:26
Have you tried *whispers* Kazza Lite?

Sean
24-04-2003, 21:32:35
How will that help me to buy a CD?

Scabrous Birdseed
24-04-2003, 21:32:45
An ILLEGAL copy you mean? No Way!
I want CD-Quality sound.

Lazarus and the Gimp
24-04-2003, 21:36:41
Want a copy burned?

BigGameHunter
24-04-2003, 21:56:49
I noticed that protein has fully integrated your album into his collection, Funky!

I love it when people do that...

King_Ghidra@home
24-04-2003, 22:34:32
Some bird i was shagging at uni nicked my Orb 'adventures in the underworld' album off me. That pissed me off a bit, but i did nick a 1950's copy of Sartre's Nausea off her, so it was a fair trade in some ways.

BigGameHunter
25-04-2003, 06:47:02
There are so many CD's and tapes I've gotten ripped off...how does that happen? Probably the umpteen roommates I've had.
I've learned not to lend any more...too much potential resentment.

Funkodrom
25-04-2003, 08:07:08
Originally posted by BigGameHunter
I noticed that protein has fully integrated your album into his collection, Funky!

I love it when people do that...

Nah, he genuinely lost that one I think. Good track though.

Funkodrom
25-04-2003, 08:10:29
And no further embarassment for me there! *phew*

Funkodrom
25-04-2003, 08:12:48
If I didn't have a £900 credit card bill and owe K_G £100 I'd get the Yeah Yeah Yeahs album.

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 08:16:03
Originally posted by Debaser
"World music" isn't a genre, its a section in music shops for all the stuff that sounds a bit different and foreign to a western ear.

I wish that it were so. But there are "world music fans" out there. In Stockholm they all live on Södermalm and buy their records from an incense-smelling shop called Multikulti which carries everything from middle-aged african troubareurs to low-key brazilian Jazz, but no Bhangra, Soca, Reggae, Carioca Funk, Zouk, Bongo Flava or other music that's actually listened to in the countries concerned.

King_Ghidra
25-04-2003, 08:25:09
Originally posted by Funkodrom
If I didn't have a £900 credit card bill and owe K_G £100 I'd get the Yeah Yeah Yeahs album.

ah i forgot about that! bank details on the way! :beer:

BigGameHunter
25-04-2003, 08:50:46
I think it's called "ethnic" in my local stores....but I'm not sure, as I don't ever look at bongo music save for Reggae.

Funkodrom
25-04-2003, 08:53:51
To be honest it doesn't matter what it's called, it only matters if it's good or not.

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 09:05:31
Wrong bongo. :) "Bongo" means "brain" in Swahili and is the Tanzanian nickname for Dar es Salaam or TZ as a whole. "Bongo Flava" is TZ Hip Hop, easily one of the most prolific musical scenes in Africa right now with an enormous fan-base in TZ, Kenya, DRC, etc.

protein
25-04-2003, 12:10:58
Originally posted by Funkodrom
To be honest it doesn't matter what it's called, it only matters if it's good or not.

That was pretty much the point of putting this on the compilation. I put it on because I think it is one of the best bits of music I have.

If it weren't for Bob Marley making Jamaican music accessable for middle class white people (like you) it would be in the "World Music" section of your record shops.

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 13:16:39
Before Bob Marley's first album was released Jamaican songs had already charted top 40 in the UK several dozen times, become the musical sound of one white, middle-class subculture (Skinheads) and a highly regarded part of another (Mods), and produced at least one #1 hit (Dave and Ansel Collins's "Double Barrel"). The amount of reggae records sold in the UK since Marley broke in 1972 (and the amount of serious, large-scale Reggae interest) largely pales in insignificance, with the exception of a couple of novelty records (Althia and Donna's "Uptown Top Ranking", etc.). You're talking out of your hat, mate.

But even if that were not the case, I doubt reggae records (except possibly old-style roots ones) would make it into the World Music shelves (or into the specialist shops) just as you don't see Soca or Bhangra records there. There's no place in world music for stuff that is non-"authentic", has a youthful rock'n'roll attitude, that is allowed to be immature, fun and poppy. I would barely have any idea such music existed were it not for a combination of a few dedicated reviewers in Swedish newspapers, the web, BBC Radio 1xtra, Swedish radio show P3 Rytm and the one record store in Stockholm that actually sells Soca records. Yet certainly in the relevant communities (whether immigrant in the West or the third world) such music is massive. Meanwhile, the "world music" stuff basically only goes to our white, middle-class world. Why should it be that way?

BigGameHunter
25-04-2003, 15:15:21
It probably won't be for long, if R&B, Blues and even "Country" are any indication of how "ethnic" music insinuates itself as the launch pad for more mainstream recognition. If you think about it, the entire music world owes its parentage to one form or another of originally "ethnic" stylings...it just takes a bit for it to make it. With the exception of some electronica and Muzak, it all comes from some barrio, cotton field or plantation, originally.
Patience...patience.

Lazarus and the Gimp
25-04-2003, 16:36:40
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Before Bob Marley's first album was released Jamaican songs had already charted top 40 in the UK several dozen times, become the musical sound of one white, middle-class subculture (Skinheads) and a highly regarded part of another (Mods), and produced at least one #1 hit (Dave and Ansel Collins's "Double Barrel"). The amount of reggae records sold in the UK since Marley broke in 1972 (and the amount of serious, large-scale Reggae interest) largely pales in insignificance, with the exception of a couple of novelty records (Althia and Donna's "Uptown Top Ranking", etc.). You're talking out of your hat, mate.


Do what? Glossing over Eddy Grant, UB40, Aswad, Steel Pulse, I feel. To say nothing of bands like The Police. Have you given Qweeg your password?

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 16:46:57
But they are already fully developed musical styles, centred around recording studios, clubs and in the case of Soca, carnivals. You couldn't go out onto a field in Trinidad and find a peasant crafting a banging Chutney* anthem- he couldn't possibly afford Pro Tools, and the weather would play merry hell with expensive synthesisers. :coolgrin:

No, the stuff that does end up here is precisely the 80-year-old-peasant-strumming-traditional-instrument-on-the-serene-hilltop stuff, perpetuating the myth that the third world consists entirely of backward, primitive, authentic (or mature, spiritual, different) people. The stuff I like is all music that, while certainly different in style from American Hip-Hop, shares the same basic values about progress, change, borrowing influences and fierce competitiveness, music that defies purism and regression. Music that's certainly commercial, but in the very best sense of the word, artists and producers trying to be better, smarter, newer than each other all the time while vying for the attention of a knowledgeable, concious audience. Ironically, it is precisely this kind of music which is difficult to get hold of in the west.

* Soca with a slight south asian influence, usually performed by the Indian minority on Trinidad. Actually I just wanted to refrain from using Soca as an example twice in a row.

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 16:49:27
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Do what? Glossing over Eddy Grant, UB40, Aswad, Steel Pulse, I feel. To say nothing of bands like The Police. Have you given Qweeg your password?

I meant the Jamaican stuff. :)

I'll admit a couple of Taxi hits in the 80s, a bit of lovers rock now and then (Ken Booth, etc., barely counts) and quite a lot of Jamaican artists doing pop, like Shaggy, Maxi Priest and Diana King.

Sean
25-04-2003, 17:08:09
So music created by people who live there doesn’t count, because not everyone there likes it or listens to it? What bullshit.

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 17:19:13
Did I say that? No, all I'm saying is that for large communities here it's the other way around.

Lazarus and the Gimp
25-04-2003, 17:21:12
So would you like a copy of "Colossal Youth" or not?

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 17:25:41
Lemme find out of Rought Trade has it first or not. I'm a bit uncomfortable with copying CDs to be honest, catholic guilt etc. I mean, if it turns out it's abandonware...

Sean
25-04-2003, 17:36:09
Then you buy it second-hand.

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 17:42:07
Doesn't benefit the original artists, therefore meaningless.

Sean
25-04-2003, 17:48:21
What about the cover art?

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 17:51:08
Gets stashed in one of my shelves never to see the light of day again. The Disc is more important...

Sean
25-04-2003, 17:53:23
Ah yes, the disc itself. Surely you would prefer a mass-produced CD with the correct design to something burned on a CD-R.

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 18:17:01
Exactly. CDRs are so icky.

Although I have just bought a packet of somewhat more chic discs, including some simply mahvellous fuscia ones.

Funkodrom
25-04-2003, 18:22:05
icky?

Oh dear.

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 18:24:35
Do you have a better "flaming queen" word for horrible then?

BigGameHunter
25-04-2003, 19:32:33
Ickylicious?

Scabrous Birdseed
25-04-2003, 20:02:44
That's a good one. I'll have to remember it next time I'm camping up.

Provost Harrison
27-04-2003, 09:58:56
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
...but no Bhangra, Soca, Reggae, Carioca Funk, Zouk, Bongo Flava or other music that's actually listened to in the countries concerned.

Did you make some of those up? Bongo Flava? :lol:

Well I failed to guess a single contributor of a track right...how embarrassing :o

Oh, you can't blame me for anything on this selection of songs because I didn't have anything on this one :p But I did thing that Decemberists track sounded a soupcon like They Might Be Giants...

Scabrous Birdseed
27-04-2003, 10:03:24
Bhangra - Bangin' Punjabi music
Soca - Bangin' English-Speaking-Carribean music
Reggae - Bangin' Jamaican music
Carioca Funk - Bangin' Brazilian music
Zouk - Moderately Bangin' French-Speaking-Carribean music
Bongo Flava - Bangin' Tanzanian music

Provost Harrison
27-04-2003, 10:08:22
We still haven't got this spelling of 'prejudice' sorted out either? IT'S NOT PREDJUDICE, IT'S PREJUDICE!!!!!!

Provost Harrison
27-04-2003, 10:09:26
I bet you've just learned those for after-dinner conversation :p

The Shaker
29-04-2003, 11:49:42
Having re-read this I've just noticed Iains little comment for track 2 taken from the pre-match slanders of my music taste.

very funny you bastard :)