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Vincent Fandango
27-01-2002, 09:23:29
There are some ideas I'd like to see in a Sim Civ game. (There were a LOT of good ideas in Master of Orion and Master of Magic)

Customizable wonders, for example. Or customizable units. I imagine that as in Master of Magic or Moster of Orion. In MOO you were able to create units with special devices, a unique set of weapons and different sizes - depending on your tech level in that field. In MOM you were able to create magic items, the more powerfull the harder to create.

So why not create your own wonders? The Temple of Evil, for example? Kills every unhappy citizen in another country. There could be a list with 20 effects (+scienece, +trade, -unhappy citizens), depending on your tech/philosophy discoveries so far. Stronger and more effects would be more expensive. That way you could build a "Small Wonder" or the Big Huge Super Wonder ("The Tower of Sid").

Vincent Fandango
27-01-2002, 09:33:50
I also liked the way science worked in MOO. There were diffenent fields of science you can spend your energie on. The concept is similar in Theme Park World. Spend your science points on philosophy or on war technology.

I don't like the Civ concept of science and the tech tree. It's too static. I miss the personalities. Wouldn't it be nice if your empire would attract philosophers? Not creating abstract science points - you may have a philosophy school with some great thinkers, maybe a genius here and there. Maybe it will be te golden age, they would lead the developement of your empire towards a completely different direction. Maybe you would have to make an example with that Sidcrates guy.

There could be warlords, philosophers, scientists, artists etc, effecting your score in different areas, different times. You'd get points for "classic eras", like the greek philosophers or the dutch painters.

Your job would be to create the "infrastructure" for these people, it would be a little like Sim City.

Vincent Fandango
27-01-2002, 09:36:18
I never liked the way the buildings work in Civ. The gouvernment has to buy a single factory and that's it? You build the industrial revolution? Wouldn't be a Sim City approach mor realistic? You make the rules and the people will react in certain way.

Beta1
27-01-2002, 14:31:42
Sidcrates - I like it.

Shining1
28-01-2002, 03:32:17
Empire building games are exclusively about autocratic control - I'm not sure how one would play if you citizens didn't do what you told them all the time.

In general, the less control you have over things, the less fun a game seems to be. For instance, the Age of Empires designers removed all the stuff they had for morale and confusion, etc, in their units because it was unfun to lose control over your army halfway through a battle. Realistic or not, the game just wasn't as good when you weren't able to keep control of it.

(The same applies in Baldur's Gate - I hate those fear and confusion spells.)


I agree with the idea of customisable wonders - in fact customisable anything generally works pretty well. Any time you can let the player feel that they've created something themselves you are doing well. For instance, the socketing/imbue quests in Diablo2 or the forged items in Baldur's Gate 2. So yes, being able to build something unique to your civilisation (like the Temple of Evil) would definitely be really cool:).

Sssidcratesss - found guilty of corrupting the minds of Larvae:).

Roland
28-01-2002, 08:11:40
"Empire building games are exclusively about autocratic control - I'm not sure how one would play if you citizens didn't do what you told them all the time."

Make it a choice. Say, under democracy, your citizens build what they want based on commercial/industrial for example. If you control it you lose efficiency.

There's a lot of stuff that could be done. For example, when I connect a (even remote) city X by railroad, why can't I say for city X "get 5 shields per turn for cost Y from city Z."

Shining1
28-01-2002, 08:14:07
Centralising your construction and having mobile resources is one of the more obvious and important improvements, certainly.

Greg W
28-01-2002, 21:20:21
Does make me wonder though: add a heap of new features, and turns will just take even longer as there's so much more to think about. And enough people complain about them now.

I think you're just bored with the current way it runs, which is fair enough, and you're looking for major changes to refresh the game for you. But they're afraid to do it, cos it may alienate a bazillion fans.

I'm sure there's a happy medium in there somewhere, however.

As for the whole building one factory thing - who says it's one factory? It is meraly an abstract representation of factories in your cities. It is not mean tto represent the fact that 18 million people work in a single factory. Wow, talk about a monopoly. ;)

Roland
29-01-2002, 08:57:13
Originally posted by Greg W
Does make me wonder though: add a heap of new features, and turns will just take even longer as there's so much more to think about.

I'd like 2 choices:

1. Free economy - if you decentralise it's more like a simcity thing: you lay out the "zoning" (in civ terms, your civ or your chosen political system is industrious, commercial, militaristic etc), and your cities will develop accordingly. You lose control and gain efficiency (and have less micromanagement).

2. If you want total control, switch to command economy. And order Leningrad to produce more toilet paper when your citizens are unhappy.

Darkstar
02-02-2002, 11:44:04
Who says having no direct control is no fun? Look at Majesty and SimCity... in neither of those games, do you have DIRECT control of the People. You can make an action more attractive and outright reward actions... but you do not directly control the people.

It really depends on HOW it's done. I wouldn't mind a system that goes all the way down to the nuts and bolts, as long as I don't HAVE to just to play the game and have fun. The trick is, you DO end up having to in most games where you HAVE the 'nuts and bolts'. Look at SMAC... unless you were playing at a 'less then the top', you didn't dare let the cities and units do their own thing. So you HAD to go into the nuts and bolts of it... But you can play a game of 'Speed SMAC' in just a few hours on the least cheating levels, in which you just 'guide' your people, and only occasionally take direct control of a select group of units, for example.

Customization is good thing. It's one of the serious KICK BUTT SUPER FUN elements of MoM. You could customize your units extremely, to fit your strategy style and needs. SMAC is nice in that you CAN customize your units.

Things I'd like to have in a SimCiv? Migration. Immi/Emmi grations... (This would be a much better 'Cultural Assimilation'). More of a focus on managing my people's needs, Infrastructure... logistics getting a real nod...

There is tons of room for improvements. Wonders are the least of it. Customizable Wonders would be a nice thing to have for the modders though... which in itself would add leg time to the product.