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View Full Version : CM new patch (1.02) let's upgrade!


maroule
13-02-2003, 16:25:57
all right CMBB gamers, the second patch is out, and I think it's high time we upgrade our versions.
I post the list of improvements done over the last two patches. Beta, you're our moral leader on this competition, so what do you say?



---------------------
v1.02 changes
---------------------

MODIFICATIONS:

* Support weapons are less likely to switch to "sneak" movement when coming under only modest incoming fire.

* "Follow Vehicle" command does not apply to bunkers (there's no need for it).

* Quick Battles are more likely to have snow on the ground in winter.

* The Parameters Briefing for Quick Battles shows what Troop Quality options were selected.

* Bog frequency reduced for heavier vehicles.

* Previously the QB autopurchaser would strip out ordnance from TO&Es when the force was attacking (or in a meeting engagement). This no longer happens.

* TacAI: Vehicles that 'retreat' from a threat will cancel any area fire they have planned.

* Quick Battle has a new Force Mix type called Pure Armor, in which *only* armor may be purchased.

* Battles saved as Tournaments will automatically be played using Extreme Fog of War.



MODELS:

* New: Pz 38(t) E, BT-2, SPW 250/11, Valentine III, StuG IV (early and late), German 28mm sPzB 41 antitank gun

* Updated: Tiger I (early, mid, and late), M3 Scout Car, PSW 234/1, Puma, PSW 234/3, SPW 250/1 (old), Churchill, Russian 76.2mm M1927/39 Regimental Gun



BUG FIXES:

* Corrected problems with units becoming excessively exhausted such that recovery took too long.

* Ordnance is far less likely to fire a shot just over the top of nearby intervening terrain, only to see it impact into the top of that terrain.

* Ampulomets are properly textured.

* Quick-battle ammo depletion setting works correctly for computer-purchased forces.

* PBEM file sizes are much smaller when ski troops are involved.

* Antiaircraft fire is somewhat reduced in effectiveness, and aircraft which are damaged are more likely to retreat before being shot down.

* When units follow a vehicle that is a sound contact the game will not inadvertently indicate the vehicle's true position.

* Units score points normally when they exit the map as passengers on a vehicle.

* Black command lines won't be drawn to HQs that have been captured.

* Artillery "Reset Target" command remembers whether you were firing HE or smoke.

* Infantry units won't "run in place" underneath a rotating vehicle they're supposed to embark upon. They'll wait for the vehicle to finish rotating.

* The presence of enemy foxholes won't be given away by the cursor display when you move the mouse around, attempting to place a unit in the setup phase.

* If a vehicle or pillbox/bunker takes a hit and suffers more than 1 casualty the word "casualties" is shown properly, not garbage text.

* Option to show all covered arcs (shift-X) is remembered from game to game.

* Airplane bombs have a more realistic (smaller) effect radius against upright infantry targets.

* Corrected a small misregistration problem between the cross-shaped road-junction graphic and the underlying representation.

* MG Carriers properly rotate in order to engage targets with the MG.

* Tanks whose crews are bailing out will continue to "influence" victory flags until the tank is fully abandoned or knocked out, so as not to give away the fact that the tank is knocked out by having the flag switch colors too soon.

* Units firing small arms won't harm *themselves* at night, though they can still potentially harm other friendly units.

* (French version) Exit zone graphics are corrected.



UNIT DATA CHANGES/FIXES/ADDITIONS:

* Soviet 122mm APBC becomes available February 1945.

* T-34, SU-85, SU-122 lower front hull slope is 53 degrees.

* KV-I series (except KV-IS) lower front hull slope is 30 degrees.

* SU-85, SU-100, SU-122 upper hull side slope is 20 degrees.

* Various small changes to armor on IS-2 series.

* ZIS-3 gun is L/42. Muzzle velocities are not changed.

* Soviet 82mm M-8 and 132mm M-13 rockets first available July 1941.

* German 214mm rockets first available February 1943.

* German 50mm mortar minimum range decreased to 60m.

* Early StuG IV has a top-mounted MG.

* Nimrod has 6 crew and carries a greater proportion of anti-tank ammunition.

* Zrinyi is called Zrinyi II (there is no Zrinyi I in the game, which was only a prototype). It carries HEAT ammunition. Front armor increased to 75mm, side armor reduced to 25mm.

* Hungarian 40mm AT gun, and 20mm cannon mounted in Toldi I and Csaba armored car are single-shot weapons.

* Main gun and MG ammo loads increased for Toldi IIA and Toldi III.

* Hungarian 40mm AP ammo on or after April 1943 is better than the type used earlier.

* Turan I and II side armor is 25mm.

* Csaba AC side and rear armor is 9mm.

* Hungarians may use captured Soviet 45mm and 76mm guns.

* Hungarian tank hunters are more likely to have panzerfausts starting May 1944.

* Hungarian Tiger is available through September 1944.

* Hungarian Panther is available from September 1944 through February 1945.

* Hungarian 47mm AT gun is rarer starting in February 1943.

* Hungary uses the Pz IIIM not the early Pz IIIJ.

* Hungarian 50mm mortar data adjusted slightly.

* Hungarian 81mm mortar minimum range increased to 75m.

* Various small changes to Hungarian vehicle rarity values in 1944-45.

maroule
13-02-2003, 16:28:40
ans since we're at it, the first patch modifications (it would also have to be installed for the 1.02 to work)


---------------------
v1.01 changes
---------------------

MODIFICATIONS:

* Setting up a defending unit (which is prepared to dig a foxhole) on top of a 'shallow' crater (one that does not register as 'crater' with the LOS tool) will not remove the shallow crater.

* Tracer graphics are larger at higher camera elevations so they're more visible.

* Vehicle bog rates are reduced somewhat, especially in drier conditions.

* Mortars have a smoke puff when they fire.

* Mortar tubes and bases are textured.

* Metallic ricochet sounds won't be played when firing on a unit that's near a metal object if the firer is very close.

* Units' colored bases are drawn at more appropriate heights.

* Passengers inside a halftrack are more difficult to spot.

* The 'split' half of a squad begins with no movement orders even if the original squad had some.

* Action computation is about 15% faster.

* Crews in immobilized tanks do not bail out so quickly when being struck by harmlessly small shells.

* Ski troops moving in a building lose their skis.

* Vehicle rotation speeds are lowered when the vehicle's forward speed is very low.

* Quick Battles may be set to last up to 120 turns.

* The officer-level 'rank' graphic indicating an HQ vehicle is shown for enemy vehicles only at the very highest level of 'identification', so it's now a bit harder to determine which enemy tanks are the HQs.

* Ordnance may be moved through a wood fence (slowly).

* Late-war Soviets, and mid- and late-war German army units, and all SS units have new 'rank' pictures.

* Infantry units are less likely to move out of the way of oncoming vehicles (the vehicles must be heading more directly at them).

* Generated maps which have hilliness set to random will never be created totally flat (though you can still choose 'flat' directly if you want).

* Finns can be assigned panzerfausts in the editor on or after May 1944 (but note that they should be considered very rare before July, and even then are far less common than they are among German troops).

* Finnish StuG III vehicles are now the "early mid" version, not the "early" version (note: 3D model is not changed, however).

* Move to Contact stops the moving unit only if a spotted enemy appears in the moving unit's covered arc (if any).

* Trenches may be placed over craters and pavement.

* Effectiveness of German 37mm AP round is reduced due to manufacturing flaws. Also given large explosive charge.

* Slight tweaks made to effectiveness of German 50mm APC round.

* Vehicle passengers may be group-selected with the mouse when vehicles are 'hidden' using the SHIFT-V option.

* Tungsten-armed ATRs may fire on unarmored vehicles.

* Quick Battles set in northern or Finnish regions in winter are highly likely to have snow on the ground even during non-snowing weather.

* Regular Finnish squads may carry demo charges.

* All Finnish squads, when equipped with a demo charge, may attempt to clear mines (as Engineers/Pioneers do from other nations, because the Finns have no specific Pioneers in their TO&E).

* Finnish 75mm AT gun is first available July 1943.

* The Finn PzIV never saw real-life combat, so it's available only in August 1944 at extremely high rarity.

* The suppression thresholds for panicking, breaking and routing are a bit higher.

* Fatigue rate for sneak movement is moderately reduced.

* Troops imported into a quick battle have their ammunition replenished.

* HQ units, when hiding, are slightly less likely to open fire on enemy units (i.e. "start" an ambush).

* ATRs have some minimal capability against infantry.

* Smoke from burning vehicles blocks LOS a bit more.

* German Sd Kfz 7 Gun Tractor will not be misidentified as a fully-armored halftrack, or vice-versa.




UNIT DATA CHANGES/FIXES/ADDITIONS:

* Finnish StuG III becomes available June 1944.

* Soviet 50mm mortar is available until war's end (Airborne uses it).

* PTRD ATR removed from two TO&Es that had it appear before September 1941.

* Valentine IX now carries the Mk. V L/50 6 pdr gun (rather than the Mk. III L/43 version).

* Max MG range for M17 halftrack is now 2500m.

* M17 halftrack crew may not button up.

* Finns have some radio-equipped forward observers.

* Slight corrections to armor ratings of captured Panther A, Panzer IIIJ, and T-34 M42.



MODELS:

* New vehicle models: BT-5 M1933, BT-5A, BT-7 M1937, BT-7M, BT-7A, T-70 M1943, Toldi II, Zrinyi, TACAM R-2, Brummbaer (mid and late), Pz IVG (mid and late), Pz IVH, Pz IVJ, Pz M15/42 738(i), Semovente L40 da 47/32, Csaba, Nimrod, Ansaldo CV-35, R-35, R-1 Tankette.

* Lowered crewman in Nimrod.

* Small fix to 76mm Sherman.

* Lowered crewman in PSW 222.



BUG FIXES:

* Prisoners cannot be given covered-arc orders.

* Corrected a problem where bailed tank crews from a saved game would show graphical problems with their uniforms or crash when clicked on.

* Corrected a problem where it was possible to group-select units, and include an enemy unit when giving orders.

* T-40 tankette info panel mentions the combination 12.7mm/7.62mm MG mount (it was already in the game data).

* Fixed some problems caused when a covered arc is set by clicking on the "sky" at lower camera angles.

* Orders delay will update properly when a mid-path waypoint is deleted.

* Vehicle TacAI obstacle-avoidance won't remove seek-hull-down orders at the end of a movement path.

* Update to torso texture for late-war Soviet Naval infantry platoon HQ.

* Corrected a problem with the Play Balance setting, when duplicating tanks they are now given proper HQ links (if any are required).

* Corrected a bug that would show a partially-identified Kubelwagen as a "jeep".

* Corrected the "gun rack" graphic for the Orita SMG.

* Corrected some tank data window display issues relating to which and how many armor penetration data sets (by ammo type) are shown.

* Passengers on a bogged-down tank don't hover in midair.

* ATR units on skis don't show their ATR set on the ground.

* In a TCP/IP game, a squad that begins the scenario split into teams, but during the setup phase is recombined into a single squad, won't "re-split" into an "extra" team upon completion of the setup phase.

* Graphically, passengers fit better into halftracks and are placed more accurately on the SU-122.

* Armor penetration of the Russian 122mm HE round adjusted down slightly.

* Corrected a rare problem where the end turn number was displayed as garbled text.

* Corrected a problem that could cause grain, brush, and rough terrain not to affect line of sight properly.

* Infantry intending to disembark won't delay doing so when their vehicle is bogged.

* Fixed a crash bug that surfaced in the "A Battle of Minors" scenario.

* Fixed a bug that sometimes caused units to be (incorrectly) shifted between battles in a "static" operation.

* Corrected rarity for the 57mm ZiS-2 AT guns in the Soviet Motorized Rifle Battalion (Tank) '44.

* Split-squads won't give victory points to the opponent at the end of the game by counting their men as 'dead'.

* Optics quality is not listed in an enemy unit's data window unless the unit is (mostly) identified.

* A main gun icon won't be shown in the 'gun rack' display for an enemy unit unless it's (mostly) identified so as not to give away too much information about, for example, a howitzer-armed halftrack.

* In a two-player Quick Battle, the results of map-generation parameters set to 'random' are not shown to the second player before he purchases units.

* Corrected problems with MG rotation/elevation graphics on M17 halftrack.

* Sometimes, enemy troops 'imported' from a previous battle map into a Quick Battle would not be spotted immediately at the end of the setup phase when they should have been. This is corrected.

* Crews won't abandon MG-pillboxes/bunkers that run out of ammo.

* Infantry movement speed reduced in woods.

* German 75mm recoilless rifle shows gray camo in early war and yellow in late war (instead of vice-versa).

* Backspace/delete key works to delete a waypoint *during* the giving of movement orders as well.

* SPW 250/1 and 251/1 don't automatically button up to use their MG.

* Corrected a swapped-bitmap graphic problem in the 45mm Model 42 gun model.

* R-1 Tankette data window lists both MGs correctly.

Beta1
13-02-2003, 18:06:23
I suggest we hold off upgrades until everyone finishes their first round CMBB games - otherwise things may become rather complicated. Is the official CDV europe version out yet - I know the US BFS version is but its not compatible with the UK/europe one.

Other than that I think its a good idea to upgrade excpet for the fact its going to make the t34 harder to kill and I'm playing the frigging germans in most of the games :(

Beta1
13-02-2003, 18:08:15
And theres fixes to vehicles I've never even seen wtf is a nimrod? or a csaba? or a zrinyi?

Venom
13-02-2003, 19:17:29
Where can I find screen shots of this game?

MDA
13-02-2003, 21:22:47
www.battlefront.com has some shots, there's also a www.combatmission.com site, but I only glanced at it. Probably has some too, though.

Just broke down and ordered CMBO yesterday - I imagine it will take awhile to cross the pond.

Venom
13-02-2003, 21:25:47
Where did you order it from?

MDA
13-02-2003, 21:29:32
www.battlefront.com is the company site, I got it there, I don't think you can get it anywhere else.

BigGameHunter
13-02-2003, 21:48:13
You have to order directly from the company. They've cut out the middlemen, which I love.
And Venom, it is the best TBS/"shooter" game you will EVER spend $50 on. You can get the original and the new one bundled for slightly more I think.
If I hadn't blown out a $100 tire yesterday, I'd have ordered the new one today....B2B sounds like it is very good....anyone want to do a comparitive review on the two from a player's standpoint? CMBO is SO good I have a hard time seeing it improved/changed much?

MDA
13-02-2003, 21:58:59
CMBO is only 30 dollars plus 7 shipping (US) now. Good price.
If its as good as billed, I can spring for BB later.

You can get both in a bundle for a bit less than each apart, too.

Venom
14-02-2003, 03:50:33
Hmmm, well I spent a lot of money today but I'll do some research on it. See what I can see.

maroule
14-02-2003, 08:27:53
CMBB is much more polished, visually quite a bit (maps mainly), but mainly the interface, orders make more sense (no more division between sneaking and crawling for example) and you have more of then, you have more views (more levels +/-), game and troop selections are more numerous, etc.

It's a real improvement, very visible. In fact, I find it hard to come back to CMBO on some levels (I find the woods in CMBO quite ridiculous for example), but I do it because the west front is fun, and allied troops are really interesting to play (Beta would say more interesting). I'd love to see the changes implemented on CMBB also implemented on CMBO, that would be smashing...

maroule
14-02-2003, 08:31:07
On the upgrade itself, let's coordinate

I can start straight away, I have installed the two versions, one patched, one not patched (big hard drive :) ).
So I can keep playing with RC on the non patch and start with Beta our new game on patched 1.02

The Shaker
14-02-2003, 09:48:48
:cry:

Nav
14-02-2003, 10:16:12
I keep going into these threads thinking they're about Championship Manager. Stop wasting my goddamn time! :bash:

CMBB. CMBB. CMBB. :D

maroule
14-02-2003, 11:26:37
why do you cry Shak? we'll finish our game...

The Shaker
14-02-2003, 11:36:56
Too many options, too many games, too many patches, My head has exploded :)

maroule
14-02-2003, 12:04:03
not yet,
tonight, when I send back our file

The Shaker
14-02-2003, 12:17:59
*bang*

Beta1
14-02-2003, 13:17:03
No I've had time to read all those changes some geeky comments..

Valentine IX now carries the Mk. V L/50 6 pdr gun (rather than the Mk. III L/43 version).
- Very cool - thats a seriously big improvement, the L/50 is much more accurate and has high penetation. Infact its the same weapon as the towed 6pdr AT gun the brits have. If it comes with T rounds you can KO tigers with it.

Quick Battles may be set to last up to 120 turns. - bad idea. Games with shaker would take over 100 turns for him to reveal his troops.

Effectiveness of German 37mm AP round is reduced due to manufacturing flaws. Also given large explosive charge. - boooo. I rather like the german 37mm heavy AT rifles. Nothing beats a 10 round a minute AT gun.


T-40 tankette info panel mentions the combination 12.7mm/7.62mm MG mount (it was already in the game data). - Not the dreaded T-40 tankette!!

but fair enough - lets make all round 2 games to be played using the 1.02 version. I'll see what I can do about doing a double install this weekend.

The Shaker
14-02-2003, 13:31:49
So what are all these L numbers anyway beta?
Give us a quick run down of Guns SIzes lengths etc. It is Friday and you've nothing better to do after all :)

Beta1
14-02-2003, 13:42:49
Your right - I have got nothing better to do.

In general guns are rated by calibre where larger = bigger bangs

Also by barrel length. This is normally given in multiples of the calibre so the sturmmoser tiger cannon is 360mm L/5 (ie 1.8m long), the tigers gun was 88mm L/43 (3.7m) and the KT 88mm/L50 (4.4m) (The last two are probably the wrong length but I'm just guessing). This is normal for all the nations except the brits who often used descriptions like 6pdr or 17pdr which was the weight of the shell I think. Incidently the 6pdr is the 56mm and the 17 pdr 76mm just like the US guns but both had longer barrels.

The L/ rating is important as the longer the barrel the higher the muzzle speed and the greater penetration and accuracy of the gun.

This is why the short barreled 75mm howitzer type guns are crap agasint tanks while the 76mm AT guns are lethal - its not the extra 1mm of shell its the extra meter or 2 of barrel.

In my opinion best AT guns

British 17pdr 76mm
German 88mm FLAK/PAK variants
US 76mm
German 75mm
Brit 6pdr
German 50mm

Best infantry guns

german 150mm
german 75mm
brit 25pdr
brit 75mm pack howitzer
everything else

not counting self propelled guns - just the towed versionss

maroule
14-02-2003, 14:00:01
since you have time and I could use your knowledge, here is a situation I don't understand :

one of my tank, Mark IV is just 'immobilised'. He wasn't shot at (he's not in Los, there are no planes), is not bogged down in rocks or swamps, weather is fine, we're in summer. It's marked as in 'clear terrain'. Moverment orders don't show anymore, just the others (fire, etc.).

Do you have engine failures in the game? will the tank start to roll again?

cheers

Venom
14-02-2003, 14:00:53
I wish to know more about this game, may I ask some questions?

maroule
14-02-2003, 14:01:51
shot

The Shaker
14-02-2003, 14:18:48
Maybe you can get track breakages/engine failure etc just from random movement ? That would be realistic.

Beta1
14-02-2003, 14:19:07
If its immobilised its stuck there permanently.

As far as I know mechanical breakdowns are not modelled in game but are accounted for in the rarity modifier.

Its unusual to see a mk4 bog on clear terrain in the dry. Is it possible you got hit by a light AT gun (maybe a heavy AT rifle) that took out a track. If the AT rifle is under a +2 stealth HQ and in good cover you might not even get a sound contact marker - just one of those "hits from nowhere". If this is the case keep an eye on the tank - it will probably get hit a few more times next turn.

Venom - ask away

Beta1
14-02-2003, 14:20:38
we should get chris to get CMBB then we could have a grudge match between him and maroule :)

Venom
14-02-2003, 14:29:11
What is the interface like? Intuitave? Easy to use?

maroule
14-02-2003, 14:31:22
:lol:
that be fun
but on second thoughts I don't really feel like knowing the guy more, so...

my tank hasn't been shot, it happened in turn 3 of a ME, and it's still hidden behind a large hill, having barely moved since the start

maroule
14-02-2003, 14:36:12
Originally posted by Venom
What is the interface like? Intuitave? Easy to use?


I find the game a little like chess, easy to get the game going, but very complex the more you scratch the surface. So the interface is easy to master quickly, but knowing the consequences of your actions and the different possible outcomes is another story. And of course the 'chess pieces' themselves (i.e the troops/weaponry) are here very diverse, and all with very specific use.

I didn't think much of the game when I first saw it (I played it like 30 mn and shelved it for a month), but now I invested some time on it, I have to say I have rarely seen a game with so much depth and replay value. And playing against humans is just so much fucking fun (I don't even bother with the AI anymore).

Venom
14-02-2003, 14:37:07
It's probably the drunken driver modifier.

Venom
14-02-2003, 14:38:11
It seems to be extremely highler thougt of. I'm trying to weigh wether it's worth it or not. If I'll take the time to explore it or not.

maroule
14-02-2003, 14:41:22
if you decide to take the time, take it for real (i.e. it's rather time consuming and only worth it if you can swallow the first few hours when you won't understand why you're beaten shitless)

Beta1
14-02-2003, 14:42:49
Maroules right its very easy to play. You just click on the unit, right click to select an order and then left click to set a waypoint (or use a keyboard shortcut or whatever). very much like playing any RTS. Then hit go, the game calculates the results of that turns orders then shows you what happened then more orders.

The tricky bit is figuring out what to do and what your meant to do about the panzerkapmfunhamsterwagen that just came over the hill.

Beta1
14-02-2003, 14:45:29
And you have to accept that the AI is likely to beat you rather a lot to start with (and I dont mean like in Command and conquer where it cheats or has a huge advantage in forces or whatever). The AI is perfectly capable of thrashing a new player with equal forces. Infact if you turn up the experience modifier (so the AI troops become veterans or even crack troops instead of regular) its pretty challenging even if you've played for sometime

Venom
14-02-2003, 14:49:46
What kind of force sizes are talking about here? How many troops may I control?

maroule
14-02-2003, 14:54:09
it depends

you can have a small battle, small map and less that 10 units to play with (one 'unit' can be an infantry platoon -up to 12 men- or a single sharpshooter, a cannon, a tank, vehicle, mortar crew, etc.). You play in 15 turns, one turn = 1 minute of real time / both give their orders at the same time, the AI resolves it during 1 minute 'movie' that is shown to you. then repeat.

Large battles have of course larger maps, more units, more turn.
You can end up with a large number of troops, but hardly more than say 400 men infantery (that would appear as 30+ platoons) and 30 to 40 vehicles (if you really wanted to push the system, I've never even tried myself, medium battles where you play with 25 'units' are the best IMHO)

MDA
14-02-2003, 15:05:17
Any of you guys remember the board/war game Squad Leader? Fond memories of that game are half the reason I bought this.
Your endless rants on how good it is are the other half. :)

I expect it will arrive in the mail the same time Moo3 hits store shelves. :(

Venom, there are some compiled "strategy guide" threads linked in one of the other CM threads here. I got a much better idea of what the game is like from reading a little of those.

Beware the Icecreamwagen.

The Shaker
14-02-2003, 15:11:21
It's very easy to get overwhelmed by the amount of info and strategy out there as well.
That's why I currently rely on Beta telling me the best way to beat him.

maroule
14-02-2003, 15:15:08
actually, here practice makes perfect, esp. to see the different tropps in action.

A beginner can expect to have its ass handed over to him repeatedly at first (except on defensive battles with the AI, they're quite easy to win, the AI is a much better defender than attacker)

welcome to the club MDA, I hope you'll have time to get into it before MOO3 arrives and slaughters evern more your social life...

I won't buy it myself, I know what it could do to me :scare:

Venom
14-02-2003, 15:24:32
Hmmm I was hoping for larger conflicts I think.

Do I get to level entire cities?

maroule
14-02-2003, 15:29:03
yes, in a way, you have large caliber arty to flatten buildings (bombings can be awsome), but the cities are never really 'large'

Venom
14-02-2003, 15:35:21
As long as I can leave rubble everywhere.

So my final question...is it worth it to get both versions or is CMBB the all encompassing master? From what I've read CMBO can be a little rough around the edges sometimes.

maroule
14-02-2003, 15:42:19
yes, get the bundle pack
I started by buying only CMBB but some (LoD, BGH, etc.) only have CMBO so had to buy it separatly (more expensive) to play with the fuckers

plus even if rough it's still superb lasting value

Venom
14-02-2003, 15:48:25
Who says I want to play with you fuckers?

And maroule, you've been suprisingly helpful, but don't think that I still don't want to peel your skin off with a spork.

Beta1
14-02-2003, 16:11:17
I actually prefer cmbo still. I just find cmbb to tank heavy, and to likely to involve large flat maps and a lot of snow and mud. The green fields of normandy are so much more fun. Also the combat in BB tends to be at longer range, which is not so much fun.

Its just so much more fun playing scenarios that have that shermans and churchills and tommies and GIs rather than yet more russians and germans (and hungarians etc.)

Venom
14-02-2003, 16:16:09
I do hate the Russians.

maroule
14-02-2003, 16:33:30
Originally posted by Venom
Who says I want to play with you fuckers?

And maroule, you've been suprisingly helpful, but don't think that I still don't want to peel your skin off with a spork.


cool, let's do it on CMBO :)

BigGameHunter
14-02-2003, 16:34:14
A couple of thoughts:
As for the "roughness" of CMBO, I don't know if you are aware or not, but there are literally HUNDREDS of mods you can download to change absolutely everything in the game visually. I've got new skies, uniforms, skins for the vehicles, grass, etc. There are whole mod packs that will change things generally, or you can change specific components only. I have a totally different interface, LOS lines, smoke, explosions, etc. There is even a Dday mod pack to give you ocean, sand, etc.
With a little tweaking and organization, you can swap these components in and out with no problem. Just do a search for CMHQ and go to that site...it's your one stop shopping center. I imagine my version of CMBO is almost as smooth as that of the CMBB game, considering all the mods I've done. Some of the bitmaps people have done are simply stunningl. There is also a program for organizing both graphics mods and scenarios out there called CMMOS (?) that I downloaded. It allows you to swap skins, uniforms, et al with ease.

Sometimes you can get an immobilized or bogged vehicle going again in CMBO by either cancelling orders and letting it sit for a turn or two, or giving it a reverse order straight back from the spot it is in. It is not going to get out every time, but often it does.

As for your immobile tank, it may have run across mines (which don't ALWAYS appear to your tank, especially if it is buttoned) got hit by a richochet or stray shell, etc. Don't know the modelling for mechanical breakdown, but I'm sure it is in the game....they don't miss much.

Venom, I don't know what kinds of games you are used to, but CM is totally awesome no matter what you've been playing. The fact that I said "totally awesome" should indicate how geeked I am on this game. I've always gone back to it. I'm not a big fan of FPS's, but I've played all the "popular" games in most genre's and this is still #1. Halflife, Freedom Force, SimCity, Civ, etc, etc....they were "fun" but CM is ADDICTING!
There are so many permutations and random events. The combination of freedom to select troops, armor, fortifications etc and then scheme your strategy over a terrain that you have to treat as one of your weapons is really fascinating. Combined with the near limitless mod ability and a very good "quick battle" engine and editor, CM is one of the best games, hands down, I have ever owned.
It is in a class by itself.
Some links:
www.combatmission.com
www.wargamer.com/cmbb/links.asp
www.gamesofwar.de/Contact.html
www.geocities.com/lrmcgarvey/links.html

Beta1
14-02-2003, 16:40:30
Originally posted by maroule
cool, let's do it on CMBO :)

Sorry Maroule - the Allied Spork never saw action in ww2 so its not in CMBO. I belive a small number were sent to russia under the lend-lease system but again there are no confirmed sightings of one in action. I guess the russians just didnt fancy taking on tigers with nothing but a small peice of plastic...

Maybe someone could mod one

Venom
14-02-2003, 17:19:30
That'd be sweet. Spork Commandos.

BigGameHunter, that's good info. I think I'll go for it. I'm looking for a sweet WWII strat game and Hearts of Iron just wasn't it. Of course I'm broke now until I get my next paycheck but 2 weeks may just be too long to wait.

The Shaker
14-02-2003, 17:20:54
Go on...you know you want it now.

Venom
14-02-2003, 17:30:15
Shut it!

But hey, while you're here Shakey, you're an idiot and simpleton like me...what do you think of the game?

The Shaker
14-02-2003, 20:02:07
Good point.
Played the demo first, thought it was ok, but didn't read all the instructions so was a bit pathetic and got bored of it.
Later replayed the demo, found it had more replayabilityif you actually concentrated, and bought it cos there was talk on here of it.
Finding it great at the moment. Once you get over the initial shock of how much there is to learn it's really fun.
Still havn't waded through most of the manual (pdf file)
It takes a long time though. You have to really explore it and think about stuff (if you want to do well...appparantly, maybe i'l do that next round). It's no blastathon.
But you get a feel for the way it's all put together when you think...maybe walking slowly across that large field towards those machine guns was not such a good idea.
If you like the feeling when someone walks right into a carefully layed trap whilst thinking they are winning, like beta is, you'll love it.

maroule
14-02-2003, 21:30:01
:lol:

Venom
14-02-2003, 23:57:29
Sounds like I'll like it.

Beta1
15-02-2003, 11:14:09
shaker - theres a PDF file manual? I got a paper one - not as good as the cmbo manual though

The Shaker
15-02-2003, 14:31:11
Beta, Yeah what I got for CMBB was an 80 odd page long paper manual(bsic instructions) with a PDF file containing MORE info (Artillery etc etc etc lots of stuff i havn't read).

CMBO arrived today (Hint hint to those with just CMBO)

That didn't have any manual at all, just a huge PDF file.
Apparantly you can get the full manual in paper...but you have to pay for it :).

Beta1
15-02-2003, 15:19:05
Thats a bit crap - I got a full manual for cmbo - about a cm thick!

Maybe they have changed that since they reduced the cmbo price...

I havnt reda any of the cmbb pdf - maybe I should!

MDA
15-02-2003, 21:57:04
My CMBO came today (3 days, overseas?), WITH a manual. Shakey got screwed. $30 +7 shipping for all that.
I spent an hour trying to figure out how to cancel a move order. :o

It's getting easier to play turns without spending an hour on each one.

I haven't finished the demo yet, but I have already taken out a Panther with a bazooka to the side at 25 meters. He was buttoned up and distracted by my woods infantry that was grinding his own ground troops into the dirt, and up over the hill top popped Joe. It was a beautiful thing. Then the crew had bailed out and shot him. :)

Is there any way to resupply units that are low or out of ammo (my little mortars always run out)?

maroule
15-02-2003, 22:07:26
nope,
saving your ammo is an important part of victory, so be economical

bad news is that you have started already to get addicted...

BigGameHunter
16-02-2003, 04:42:58
You can end up retrieving vehicles and resupplying to some extent in an "Operation" battle, but that is a several stage affair and not the best beginner's exercise.
*that's why it is good to blow up the enemy's tanks and vehicles in an operation--irretrievable.

Beta1
16-02-2003, 08:45:26
MDA - very cool when a plan works. Rather amusing getting taken out by a tank crew though :)

Venom
16-02-2003, 13:59:03
I've played the demos...and I suck. But it's extremely fun.

maroule
16-02-2003, 14:12:24
you'll suck for some more time, at best
some suck all their lives at this game, and yes, I mean RC by this most gratuitous comment

Venom
16-02-2003, 17:39:43
I won my first battle in the demo. Total victory. No more mad rushes for me. I've learned my lesson.

BigGameHunter
16-02-2003, 22:06:19
The mad rush is hard to resist.

MDA
17-02-2003, 02:54:38
letting your armor get just a wee bit ahead of infantry support is also hard to resist.

Beta1
17-02-2003, 10:21:51
and normally fatal in cmbo - in cmbb theres no bazooka, shrecks or fausts to worry about so tanks are rather harder to kill

Resource Consumer
17-02-2003, 12:53:47
Originally posted by maroule
you'll suck for some more time, at best
some suck all their lives at this game, and yes, I mean RC by this most gratuitous comment

bastard

Resource Consumer
17-02-2003, 12:56:40
Originally posted by Venom
Who says I want to play with you fuckers?

And maroule, you've been suprisingly helpful, but don't think that I still don't want to peel your skin off with a spork.

Is this some sort of homo-erotic game using an implement that is a combination between a spoon and a fork?

maroule
17-02-2003, 12:57:40
no, to you I'm a cheese eating non surrendering money ;)

Resource Consumer
17-02-2003, 13:30:56
pay up:D

maroule
17-02-2003, 13:33:09
argh, MONKEY...
hey, feel free to send me your next turn BTW, I'm curious to see how an assault can be made in these condistions (I think the weather favors defensive play)

MDA
18-02-2003, 19:09:20
Just discovered the joy of defending a village with hidden
SMG teams. Their close up firepower is ridiculous. Flammpanzer is fun, but perhaps not as effective at killing as in just denying allied troops cover to hide in. Pinning them down in the open with HMG fire and rolling the flamethrower up is quite the spectacle when it works, though.:)

German armor is just ridiculously hard to kill, they tend to take out a sherman with the first shell fired. The allies seem to need either superior numbers or really sneaky armor and bazookas to cope.

Does anyone else find the AI is pretty easy to defeat on random maps? (but MUCH harder in scenarios)

Venom
18-02-2003, 19:27:59
I found out about German armor superiority the hard way in the demo. I couldn't keep my Shermans alive for long when I attacked so I had to sit at the crossroads in the middle of the map and wait for them to move up the hill on the other side of the road. Then I could finally take them out by firing 5 on 2. Of course there was a 3rd German Assault Gun out there and he stayed behind the hill. I was too chicken to drive my tanks over the hill so I left them in position and used them to drive back the infantry. So once I had the wooded heights secured I tried to sneak a couple of bazooka troops around the left flank through the woods. They ran into a veteran HMG squad and died in a hurry. Didn't have enough turns left to try a backup plan after that.

maroule
18-02-2003, 19:34:39
good, the addiction process is on for both of you
as soon as you feel comfortable, let's go PBEM

Venom
18-02-2003, 19:39:43
I also blew up a church in the process of my attack. Which, if I may say so, was excellently planned and executed.

The Shaker
18-02-2003, 19:49:56
Shit, Venom's a natural.

MDA
18-02-2003, 20:05:56
at blowing up churches? :lol:

I'm ready to get my ass handed to me by a human. Open season on the newbie.

The Shaker
18-02-2003, 20:40:55
I'll give you a nice friendly game, What've you got CMBO? I only played one mission of that against the AI so you would have a nice advantage :)

BigGameHunter
18-02-2003, 20:46:07
And so it begins...
Just remember: there can be only ONE!

maroule
18-02-2003, 23:15:31
we'll soon be enough for a tournament...

MDA
18-02-2003, 23:31:43
Shaker, you have a PM.

I'm guessing that "friendly game" smiley has crocodile teeth.

maroule
18-02-2003, 23:37:32
the clash of the newbies
try RC, as well :D

Beta1
19-02-2003, 09:40:45
At this rate we'll have to have 2 divisions!

MDA - I guess your about to be subjected to shakers famous stealth tactics.

Dont both playing him in a meeting engagement, setup a defence and let him attack you over about 5 turns. Its what all his MEs endup like anyway.

I suspect him and LoD havnt seen anyof each others troops at all yet :)

maroule
19-02-2003, 09:44:38
well, I havn't seen LoD for days actually, have you received files from him lately?

The Shaker
19-02-2003, 11:13:28
I just want to point out that in the 'Shaker-Maroule, revenge of the incompenants' match we already have contact after a couple of rounds. So there :p
P.s Beta I'm still waiting a turn from you.

Beta1
19-02-2003, 12:01:00
OK I thought I was waiting one from you !

I'll have a rummage around tonight and see if ones fallen down the back of the sofa

Resource Consumer
19-02-2003, 12:07:06
Sorry. Was out last night and will be out tonight (probably: TAX SMS to confirm) - something will arrive Thursday I am sure.

maroule
19-02-2003, 12:33:56
your thriving social life won't protect you

and yes, apparently we've make contact with shak but I wouldn't know, he hasn't sent me the file (as of this morning). He's probably just looking at it in utter amazement : woaaa, troops sighted on turn 4...

The Shaker
19-02-2003, 12:36:48
Did I not attach it?
I sent it before I went to bed last night.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARrrrrrrrrrrse

maroule
19-02-2003, 12:38:35
and I almost drew to you
the shame, the shame

MDA
19-02-2003, 13:51:58
Originally posted by Beta1
At this rate we'll have to have 2 divisions!

MDA - I guess your about to be subjected to shakers famous stealth tactics.


Hmm. Sneaky Bazooka Joe's then. I'll be watching.

Resource Consumer
20-02-2003, 16:50:06
Originally posted by maroule
your thriving social life won't protect you

and yes, apparently we've make contact with shak but I wouldn't know, he hasn't sent me the file (as of this morning). He's probably just looking at it in utter amazement : woaaa, troops sighted on turn 4...

Thriving social life?

I was meeting TAZ - now that is not exactly thriving is it...

maroule
20-02-2003, 16:51:41
it's not because I'm french that I can't be sarcastic at times

Resource Consumer
20-02-2003, 16:57:56
You are trying to deny your heritage now?;)

maroule
20-02-2003, 17:02:53
well, there's no escape from my heritage these days, I seem to embody everything French for some... just when I started to feel first and foremost European, I'm pushed back right into my tribe...

BigGameHunter
20-02-2003, 21:04:55
You do shower regularly, don't you?

maroule
20-02-2003, 21:19:54
every year, always the same day

MDA
24-02-2003, 22:07:04
Ah, this is why Shaker didn't get a manual?

What's the difference between the European and the American version?
The distributor for CM:BB is a German company called CDV. Under German law, it is forbidden to promote Nazi and SS political views or material in media. These include the Nazi emblem or the term SS. In the European version of the game, SS units are renamed WaffenGrenadiere. This does not affect their combat performance.

The European manual is also different to the American one. To make the European one fit into a DVD case, it was trimmed down. The full manual is available on the CD, in PDF format.

The CDV version also has a copy-protection system that can struggle with some anti-virus programs or CD-players.

maroule
24-02-2003, 22:16:04
there's a mod to restaure historical units, if you wish
I haven't done, yet, I might

Beta1
24-02-2003, 22:47:30
shaker - is it you or me whoes sitting on a turn. I've lost track again

maroule
25-02-2003, 08:16:35
probably him, he's sitting on my turn as well

The Shaker
25-02-2003, 10:46:22
Sorry guys, I tried to fire them all off last night, but my mail wasn't working, I think Mike had gone to bed and turned off the net connection (at 8.30 goddamn it) anyway they are all sat in my out box waiting to go.
I'm impressed how fast maroules tankette ran away.

maroule
25-02-2003, 10:47:49
made in France

Funkodrom
25-02-2003, 10:50:07
Yeah, I did. Sorry.

King_Ghidra
25-02-2003, 11:03:36
shaker really is your bitch then

Beta1
25-02-2003, 11:10:56
Mike turned off the net?

I didnt realise he had that much power!

King_Ghidra
25-02-2003, 11:13:20
Originally posted by Beta1
Mike turned off the net?

shhh!!! You mean Funko! :nervous:

Venom
25-02-2003, 13:00:40
I new there were several dozen porn sites unavaible last night for some reason.

MDA
25-02-2003, 17:03:12
Mike "went to bed early" for some reason :)

Beta1
27-02-2003, 17:52:29
Oi Maroule - did you get the patches from CDV.

The ones for for the US version from battlefront require you to install 1.01 before patching to 1.02.

The europe version from CDV only appears to have a german v1.01 patch and thats 68Mb. Do I just need the 1.02 patch or what?

Beta1
27-02-2003, 18:04:56
For Christs sake - the first patch is 68Mb.

Like I said I'm all for adding content but making the first patch that big for a game that doesnt crash is ridiculous.

Typical fucking CDV. The US version patch is about 16Mb the Europe one 68Mb and you cant use the US one on the UK retail version.

Maourle - upgrading to 1.02 may have to wait. I cant even get a file that large at work in under an hour.

The Shaker
27-02-2003, 18:59:25
Muahaaa.
yep 65 and 15+ mg for the two little paching beauties.
Can't say i've actually noticed a difference, apart from all my vehicles dieing in the new patch.

maroule
27-02-2003, 23:48:11
beta, you need to patch 1.01 before patching 1.02
I know it's big, but it's worth it

however, I still have version 1.00 so we can start it there, no problem for me

Beta1
28-02-2003, 09:50:04
I'm going to pull some favours and get a friend of mine with broadband to dl it for me.

The Shaker
28-02-2003, 10:10:52
If not I can bung 'em on a CD for you.

BigGameHunter
28-02-2003, 16:13:32
Why the big difference? I remember DL'ing patches from CMBO here and it didn't seem excessively long.

LoD
02-03-2003, 21:26:31
Originally posted by maroule
well, I havn't seen LoD for days actually, have you received files from him lately?

I'll do my turn wednesday, hopefully, sorry for the delay guys - the probability demons have got me....

Beta1
03-03-2003, 09:49:50
shit, I'm joint top scorer for the week (so far), with nistleroy and shearer to play again and a point for sun as sub for petite to come.

Thats a first this season. Could this be the start of another legendary Beta1 late season charge?

Probably not.

maroule
03-03-2003, 09:58:01
wrong game, beta :lol:

Beta1
03-03-2003, 12:51:40
I was wondering where that post had gone.

That will teach me to have too many browser windows open at once.

Still at least it was posted on counterglow - I had about three forums open when I posted that. It would have confused the hell out of the lot over at battlefront or DBP!

LoD
05-03-2003, 21:06:48
...make that thursday. Sorry, guys, but I spent the most of my day today at uni...

maroule
06-03-2003, 08:24:42
keep this man away from his vodka bottle, or he'll never play a turn again