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View Full Version : Debaser made me a Birthday CD - review, kinda.


Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 10:33:03
1. Jailbreak - Fu-Manchu. The original is a great song, this is a really cool cover by Stoner Rockers Fu-Manchu. Reminds me of Metallica's cover of Whiskey in the Jar in it's attitude.
2. Believe in What You Want - Jimmy Eat World. I still haven't replaced my Bleed American CD (soundtrack to New Zealand) and this isn't their best song but still a cool JEW song.
3. My Own Summer (Shove it) - The Deftones. I've actually got this on Around the Fur. Great song. I saw Deftones twice live before I heard them recorded and their recorded output has never really captured for me how good I thought they were live. Which is a shame.
4. A Thousand Forms of Mind - Mudhoney. This is a really grungy Mudhoney track. I don't actually own any of their stuff that's like this. I've only got Five Dollar Bob's Mock Cooter Stew, which is a really weird album. Good song.
5. Daydream Believer - Shonen Knife. Cover of the Monkeys song by a couple of mad Japanese rock girls. It's not done as a joke, more like because they really like it. They actually make it sound kind of sad. I like it a lot better than the original done this way.
6. It Came from Japan - The Von Bondies. Nice Japan track linking. Starts with a QotSA style riff which has got to be a good thing. Then the rhythm of the guitar and vocals in the chorus remind me of Touch Me I'm Sick by Mudhoney. I know this song but I wouldn't have known it was The Von Bondies. I like it.
7. Debaser - The Pixies. What can I say, a total classic. Played every alternative night at The After Dark since it's release.
8. United States of Whatever - Liam Lynch. One and a half minute novelty rock record... I like it but don't know why.
9. Party Hard - Andrew W.K. I can't listen to Andrew W.K without getting a huge grin on my face. It's hard to stop that fist pumping in the air as well. Every bit of every one of his songs is like the chorus from a Wildhearts song.
10. Used For Glue - Rival Schools. I was surprised this was on here because I'm sure Debaser didn't like Rival Schools. I think they are quite cool. This song rocks hard enough to follow Party Hard which is tough. I'm really going to have to get this album soon.
11. 100% - Sonic Youth. These are on here because Debaser thinks I should listen to more Sonic Youth. I see why he thinks that but this song doesn't quite click for me.
12. Freak Scene - Dinosaur Jr. This is quite cool. It's got an acoustic guitar but manages to just about pull it off.
13. Planet Of Sound - The Pixies. The Pixies are great. Why don't I own any?
14. Stay With Me - Finch. This is ace. I see now what he was saying about the Finch album. So now there are 2 good emo bands.
15. Pissant - Smashing Pumpkins. This is apparently from between Gish and Siamese Dream. Siamese Dream is possibly my favourite album of all time. This is a decent Pumpkins song, which means it's a great song for any other band.
16. Fell in Love with a Girl - The White Stripes. Great video. I quite like the White Stripes in a, I don't turn their videos off when they come on MTV2 but I wouldn't buy their albums kind of way. This is the best song of theirs that I've heard.
17. Sk8er Boi - Avril Lavigne. Laz summed it up best. Cute girl, catchy song. I love it.
18. The Touch - Van Halen. From the soundtrack to Transformers the Movie. Everything tacky and unfashionable about 80s rock in one fantastic song.

King_Ghidra
09-01-2003, 11:14:04
Can't Debaser just tell you he's gay and loves you and get it over with, rather than doing this embarassing gift giving thing?

*End Is Forever*
09-01-2003, 11:22:59
I told you Finch were great. Nice article on them in Kerrang this week. They're touring in March. See 'em now before they get huge.

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 11:51:43
Is K_G jealous?

*End Is Forever*
09-01-2003, 14:11:18
Obviously he's got a secret crush on Debaser...

King_Ghidra
09-01-2003, 14:45:21
i've admired his cute little ass for years and then that hot stud funko comes along and he completely forgets me :cry:

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 14:46:10
Story of your life.

Debaser
09-01-2003, 16:55:28
Originally posted by Funkodrom
10. Used For Glue - Rival Schools. I was surprised this was on here because I'm sure Debaser didn't like Rival Schools. I think they are quite cool. This song rocks hard enough to follow Party Hard which is tough. I'm really going to have to get this album soon.


I don't dislike them exactly, I just think the album has too much filler. And it reminded me of Bush when I first heard it.

Debaser
09-01-2003, 16:56:34
Originally posted by King_Ghidra
Can't Debaser just tell you he's gay and loves you and get it over with, rather than doing this embarassing gift giving thing?

I tried that. Funko wasn't having any of it. Now I'm hoping to buy his love.

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 16:59:42
Spend more.

Venom
09-01-2003, 17:17:19
What happened to the New Zealand soundtrack?

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 17:20:16
Lost it when I lost my rucksack.

PosterBoy
09-01-2003, 17:22:52
Originally posted by Debaser
I tried that. Funko wasn't having any of it. Now I'm hoping to buy his love.

Just get him drunk and rape his arse

Venom
09-01-2003, 17:56:10
Originally posted by Funkodrom
Lost it when I lost my rucksack.

My god man! If you would have had THE BAG you'd have never lost it.

Lazarus and the Gimp
09-01-2003, 18:12:17
You don't own any Pixies? Good God. Run out and buy the first three albums at once.

Debaser
09-01-2003, 18:17:04
Or the Death To The Pixies best of. Especially the 2CD version if you can still get it.

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 20:29:06
Don't. They're shit.

Provost Harrison
09-01-2003, 20:41:20
Originally posted by Venom
My god man! If you would have had THE BAG you'd have never lost it.

Don't talk about his mother like that! :p

Provost Harrison
09-01-2003, 20:41:46
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Don't. They're shit.

:rolleyes:

Asher
09-01-2003, 20:43:23
It's like Snapcase is stuck in a perpetual state of "opposite day" from elementary school...

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 21:02:49
What's your problem Asher? I'm exhorting the guy not to buy shit music. Surely that's a fine and laudable and essentially positive deed.

Asher
09-01-2003, 21:04:42
Do you understand that taste in music is relative, and nobody cares what you think about music?

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 21:09:30
Do you understand that some people appreciate suggestions about music? I know I certainly do. As do, I suppose, all the other people who have suggested stuff in this thread. Aren't you beginning to think you're the intellectually feeble exception rather than the rule?

Asher
09-01-2003, 21:16:38
People enjoy suggestions in music from people who have similar tastes in music. Because then they may actually like it.

Does anyone here honestly listen to your suggestions and take them seriously? I can almost see everyone collectively roll their eyes every time you give your opinion on music.

And FYI, Snapcase, saying "Don't buy that album, it's shit" does not constitute a suggestion.

Asher
09-01-2003, 21:18:50
How would you like it if a 13 year old girl was giving out music suggestions?

I can guarantee you wouldn't take them seriously, because you think her taste in music is shit.

Most people think the same for your suggestions. :)

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 21:22:55
If she could argue for them in a sensible way, sure, I would litsen to her suggestions.

If anyone can coherently and seductively argue for a type of music then I'm perfectly willing to give them a try on that persons terms. Just because you lack the most simplistic ability at self-realisation or self-description (or for that matter, empathy) doesn't mean everyone else does.

Asher
09-01-2003, 21:25:15
Why do you need to argue about whether music is good???

Do you even know what music IS???

It's about making songs that people enjoy listening to. Some people enjoy music that they can relate to, others that they can dance to, others that like to hear stories, etc.

You can't argue about music. You like it, or you don't. If an argument about music changes your mind about whether you like it or not, then you obviously don't have a fucking clue what music is about.

Which is something I find extraordinarily pathetic.

Asher
09-01-2003, 21:26:16
And
Just because you lack the most simplistic ability at self-realisation or self-description (or for that matter, empathy) doesn't mean everyone else does.
doesn't mean anything.

It's typical pseudo-intellectual dribble from an elitist.

Debaser
09-01-2003, 21:27:54
Yada yada yada.

Same arguement, different day.

Debaser
09-01-2003, 21:38:16
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
If she could argue for them in a sensible way, sure, I would litsen to her suggestions.

I usually listen to what you have to say about music, but given what you said above surely you'd agree that "Don't. They're shit" isn't a viable or helpful suggestion.

Provost Harrison
09-01-2003, 21:38:49
Originally posted by Asher
It's like Snapcase is stuck in a perpetual state of "opposite day" from elementary school...

No he isn't

;)

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 21:57:50
No, I said I really like The Pixies, Scabby advised me not to buy any because they are shit.

If he'd said, well if you like the Pixies you should listen to Band X instead because they do a similar thing but much better I'd be tempted to listen to him. As it is I'll ignore him. :beer:

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 21:59:20
Sorry for hijacking your thread. Asher started it.

Asher, why do you keep refering to everything you don't understand as elitist? Just ask next time, I'm not the world's clearest philosophicar expressor.

What I mean is, you've made no attempt as far as I know to ever understand why you feel a certain way about music, and if you have you certainly have never been able to express it in clear terms. You're shying away from concretely and coherently understanding yourself.

That, ultimately, is the philosophical impetus behind music criticism. I am convinced all humans are enough alike for us to be able to draw conclusions about ourselves from the similar conclusions drawn by others. In fact, it's probably inevitevitable that we do. I think it's vanity to believe, like you apparently do, that the perspective of another person when observing sense-data such as music doesn't affect us on some lower level, and directly alter our feelings. After all, entire discourses and genres have grown up with lots of people pulling in a similar direction. It's nowhere near as dumbly instinctive as you make it out to be- I believe a lot of reasoning is going on at a subconcious level, often involving the perspective of others. I mean, look at how you yourself started using words (scientific, elitist) and the accompanying perspectives that other people brought into the last thread.

I'm sure you've changed your mind about some type of music in the past (or at least I hope you have- I have many times). Why do you think that is?

I know from a personal point of view I really hated modern R&B with a passion. Then a combination of three things happened: (a) I started listening to historical black music I liked, soul and funk, and realised the shared mechanics between the two. (b) Through increased exposure, I got desensitised to the stomach-gurning feeling that used to plague me during listening. (c) Someone wrote a piece on some R&B I hadn't heard in a newspaper that made me feel really curious about it, and probably partially made me absorb the perspective of the writer subconciously. And I started, slowly but surely, to listen to the stuff. Now it's one of my favourite genres in the world. And, you know, I could perfectly well have thought that for academic reasons like you suggest, that I was able to analyse it more, that I wanted to be like a certain writer. But I don't. I truly feel, I get extremely deeply involved in my music. I think, on some level, we all work this way, and even more, that such an expansion of deep, sub-rational emotional empathy is an extremely worthwhile excersise and will teach you both about others and yourself.

Asher
09-01-2003, 22:00:59
Awwww for fuck sake.

Do you have to make this so easy?

Do you understand the painful hilarity of this statement?
Asher, why do you keep refering to everything you don't understand as elitist?

It's not that I don't understand it, it's that you think other people don't understand it that makes it elitist!

What I mean is, you've made no attempt as far as I know to ever understand why you feel a certain way about music, and if you have you certainly have never been able to express it in clear terms. You're shying away from concretely and coherently understanding yourself.
I completely understand why I like the music I do, I've just never felt the need to explain it to anyone, let alone you, because it doesn't make a bit of difference.

Asher
09-01-2003, 22:03:23
And just what the hell is sub-rational?

If it's not rational, it's irrational...

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 22:06:48
OK this is a nature nurture debate. Now I understand.

Scabby is looking for some universal law of Good Music with capitals when really there's only what people like based on their experiences.

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 22:15:02
Pt. 1: If you understand it, why did you claim it was meaningless? Did I expect you to understand it? Of course I fucking did. What's pseudointellectual about using perfectly understandable words to form a perfectly understandable sentence?

Pt. 2: Of course it fucking does. Most of all, it makes a difference to you. Articulate exactly what you believe (which I still think is an essential component, or at least strife, of self-realisation) will help you organise your thoughts no end. Self-therapy is of course not the only impetus for writing, but it's certainly a huge part of it.

And it'd help me. If your reasons are compelling and indeed truthful enough (which I still doubt, of course- most people can't intellectually justify shit, flat, derivative music in a sensible way), I will take them into consideration, digest them, and may understand you better. That process will inevitably alter my tastes in music whether I conciously allow them to or not.

So, I challenge you, Asher: start a thread, pick a song you really, really like and expalin exaclty, not using wishy-washy terms like "sounds nice", why you like that song down to the minutest detail. I guarantee we'll both learn something from you doing so.

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 22:19:18
subrational, subconcious, same difference. :clueless:

Mike: No, that's precisely what I'm not trying to do. I believe the very process of exchanging views about music, on a reasonably high level, acts as an experience or a perspective on experience in itself, drawing the arguers towards a shared feeling about music. I do believe there's something about us that allows us to share these kinds of perspectives, though, so I guess that could be considered nature.

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 22:22:15
One other thing- I really like the feelings I get when I listen to my good music. I like them much more than the feelings I got when I used to listen to music I now find appaling. That makes me want others to understand what I like in music so that they can feel the same feelings I do, get the same joys I do. What makes this an evil aim?

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 22:22:48
Can I make a counter challenge?

Scabby pick a song you really, really like and use only words that express emotions to describe the song. Not a single technical musical term to pass your fingers.

Why challenge that? Because I know you think of music like that but you often come across as very clinical in your descriptions of it.

Asher
09-01-2003, 22:23:05
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Pt. 1: If you understand it, why did you claim it was meaningless? Did I expect you to understand it? Of course I fucking did. What's pseudointellectual about using perfectly understandable words to form a perfectly understandable sentence?
Because it's a lot of words with no meaning.
"self-realization" and "self-description" sound like buzzwords from 1990s infomercials.

So, I challenge you, Asher: start a thread, pick a song you really, really like and expalin exaclty, not using wishy-washy terms like "sounds nice", why you like that song down to the minutest detail. I guarantee we'll both learn something from you doing so.
I won't do it, not because I can't do it, but because I don't want to.

First of all, I treat music fundamentally differently than you do. Music is all about emotion to me, at its core. Music is all about technicals to you.

I could explain why I like a song in excruciating detail but it'd turn more into a psychology thread rather than a music thread.

That's why I roll my eyes whenever you dismiss a great song because you insist a riff sounds familiar. The technical parts of a song are just tools, instruments (quite literally) in the meaning of the song. Like a telescope to an astronomer, like a programming language to a software engineer -- just because a telescope looks familiar doesn't mean you're looking at the same thing through it.

How lame was that. Oh well.

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 22:26:12
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
One other thing- I really like the feelings I get when I listen to my good music. I like them much more than the feelings I got when I used to listen to music I now find appaling. That makes me want others to understand what I like in music so that they can feel the same feelings I do, get the same joys I do. What makes this an evil aim?

OK Couple of X-Posts there.

The aim isn't bad. What's bad is the way you do it. Dictatorial style doesn't work when it comes to artistic things. To achieve a similar aim I tend to find music that people like and suggest music that I think has similarities in mood or tone or whatever but that I like a lot more. That positive reinforcement seems to work a lot better.

When you tell someone that they are wrong or that music that they like is bad they are immediately on the defensive, and it makes them angry. Especially if you do it in a way that gives the impression that your taste is superior to theirs.

Asher
09-01-2003, 22:27:18
Originally posted by Funkodrom
OK Couple of X-Posts there.

The aim isn't bad. What's bad is the way you do it. Dictatorial style doesn't work when it comes to artistic things. To achieve a similar aim I tend to find music that people like and suggest music that I think has similarities in mood or tone or whatever but that I like a lot more. That positive reinforcement seems to work a lot better.

When you tell someone that they are wrong or that music that they like is bad they are immediately on the defensive, and it makes them angry. Especially if you do it in a way that gives the impression that your taste is superior to theirs.
Spot on.

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 22:27:58
That's why I roll my eyes whenever you dismiss a great song because you insist a riff sounds familiar. The technical parts of a song are just tools, instruments (quite literally) in the meaning of the song. Like a telescope to an astronomer, like a programming language to a software engineer -- just because a telescope looks familiar doesn't mean you're looking at the same thing through it.

Yeah, maybe lame but I know what you are trying to say and I agree. Knowing in intimate detail the technical language of music doesn't make you a better judge of what's good and what isn't. And I like very little music the same as you.

Lazarus and the Gimp
09-01-2003, 22:29:44
Nah, stuff the arguments. He's just wrong. Pixies were brilliant.

Lazarus and the Gimp
09-01-2003, 22:30:40
Go on. Write about their "loud/quiet aesthetic" again.

Debaser
09-01-2003, 22:31:16
"Nah, stuff the arguments. He's just wrong. Pixies were brilliant."


Agreed. Right, anyone fancy a pint?

Lazarus and the Gimp
09-01-2003, 22:32:06
Actually, don't bother. This is my definition of a Pixies song.

1- Perky and mild start.

2- Brief warning siren.

3- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGG GGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 22:34:34
I think all my favourite bands utilise the Quiet/Loud aesthetic. I think it's really called making something rock more by having a quiet bit before it.

Debaser
09-01-2003, 22:35:04
Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp
Actually, don't bother. This is my definition of a Pixies song.

1- Perky and mild start.

2- Brief warning siren.

3- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGG GGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You missed a bit:-

1.5. Token line sung in Spanish.

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 22:36:40
Mike: Sure, mate. It'll be quite boring, you'll see.

Pt. 1 (sorry about these, I can't be bothered to quote!): They're not meaningless to me. Self-realisation: Understanding youself. Self-descrition: being able to describe your understanding of yourself. How empty is that?

Pt. 2: What's wrong with psychology? :hmm:

Music is all about Emotion for me too. The difference is, I attempt to understand the subconcious rational base of my emotions.

Think about ethics, for instance. Now, like I suspect you do too (unless you're a psychopath, which I believe you're not) you feel you ought to act in a certain way in order to act morally. Some people are satisfied by this state- certainly you won't act differently from anyone else if you do- but most people are driven by a curiosity to find out what, exactly, are the precise rules that, in some background level somewhere you can't percieve, tell you what it is you ought to do. I mean, half of philosophy seems obsessed by this subject. Is that not a worthwhile exercise?

If it is, what makes music any different?

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 22:38:48
Ah so you don't like my STYLE. That's okay, I like my style and that's all that matters, surely.

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 22:39:07
See, I told you it was the nature nurture debate.

If you want an absolute set of ethics you need to turn to religion. Maybe it's the same with music. The only good music is Hare Krishna chanting.

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 22:39:58
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Ah so you don't like my STYLE. That's okay, I like my style and that's all that matters, surely.

I don't mind your style but it took me a long time to understand it.

Sean
09-01-2003, 22:40:13
Originally posted by Asher
Does anyone here honestly listen to your suggestions and take them seriously? I can almost see everyone collectively roll their eyes every time you give your opinion on music.
Actually, I took a look about for that Trojan Rocksteady Box Set, and found a ton of other Trojan Box Sets in the process.

Anyway, first three albums? Trompe Le Monde is the best.

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 22:41:47
Who said ethics need to be absolute? A lot of people are moral realitvists! (I'm not. Oh bugger. Okay, it is a nature vs. nurture debate. And, er, you've all been SPOILT BY COMMERCIAL RADIO! So there.)

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 22:41:51
And I think that it's counterproductive to your aim.

If someone told me they were going to build a bridge by randomly throwing bricks into the sea I'd probably mention that it might not be the best way as well. If they were happy with it, I'd leave them to it.

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 22:43:02
I really, really desperately need that "raises fist in salute while looking earnest" smily.

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 22:46:31
Hey Sean, re: Trojan Box Sets- do you need recommendations? :D

Asher
09-01-2003, 22:47:18
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Pt. 1 (sorry about these, I can't be bothered to quote!): They're not meaningless to me. Self-realisation: Understanding youself. Self-descrition: being able to describe your understanding of yourself. How empty is that?
What do you define the art of jumping to conclusion by claiming someone isn't "self-realised" and can't exercise "self-description" just because they refuse to discuss it with you?

Some of us are just bright enough (sometimes :D) to realize it'd be a waste of time.

Pt. 2: What's wrong with psychology? :hmm:
The forum is labeled Music...

Music is all about Emotion for me too. The difference is, I attempt to understand the subconcious rational base of my emotions.
If music is all about emotion to you, you don't express that very well.

You've dismissed some of my favorite bands without so much as really listening to them, you've made some weird remarks about how they're ripping off other older bands (when the similarities are virtually nonexistant), and then try to brand them with some absolute "bad music" stamp.

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 22:50:51
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Who said ethics need to be absolute? A lot of people are moral realitvists! (I'm not. Oh bugger. Okay, it is a nature vs. nurture debate. And, er, you've all been SPOILT BY COMMERCIAL RADIO! So there.)

:D

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 22:54:57
And how can those things not be explained by emotions in each case? I mean, certainly irrational prejudice, the practically reproductive urge to spread your own music to others (which is why I made the Sweet Jane remark- I dislike Kory for other, more Peter Gabrielly reasons ;)) and stupid self-affirmative pride/arrogance are all perfectly viable emotions to me!

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 22:58:35
What can you talk about when you talk about music other than your own experiences, ie. psychology? Perhaps we should just post sound files in this forum instead. :p

Asher
09-01-2003, 23:01:44
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
(which is why I made the Sweet Jane remark- I dislike Kory for other, more Peter Gabrielly reasons ;))
Peter Gabrielly? WTF? :confused:

What can you talk about when you talk about music other than your own experiences, ie. psychology? Perhaps we should just post sound files in this forum instead.
Music suggestions, CD reviews (which relates to music suggestions).

It's pointless to argue about music. :)

Funkodrom
09-01-2003, 23:01:59
OK. So bearing all that in mind...

How does. "Don't. They're shit." fit in. :D

Sean
09-01-2003, 23:07:55
Originally posted by Asher
It's pointless to argue about music. :)
Like I said, fun. Like the console debate, or the OS debate, or the messaging debate*.

*Debate is the wrong word, but I don’t care.

Asher
09-01-2003, 23:09:19
Console debate, OS debate, and messaging debate can be argued more scientifically. :)

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 23:09:43
Asher: Surely CD Reviews are actually a form of argument, as are recommendations? :p

Mike: It's a negative recommendation, succinctly pulling together paragraphs and paragraphs of really complicated explanations (including graphs) into a three-word post. :D

Asher
09-01-2003, 23:11:00
Originally posted by Scabrous Birdseed
Asher: Surely CD Reviews are actually a form of argument, as are recommendations? :p
Only with the elitists who think they know better.

Others realize people like music for different reasons.

Scabrous Birdseed
09-01-2003, 23:13:04
Oh they may now, but not when I've won the argument.

Debaser
09-01-2003, 23:22:45
Originally posted by Asher
It's pointless to argue about music.

:lol: